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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all
I am still trying to sort out this Christian religion thing.It is supposed to have started about 4000BC with Abram the founder of Judaism.So in my book that should be the true religion
But then Jesus was born and died 30years later.in that time people started to drift away from the Jewish teachings.It was not until the Romans accept the christian teachings did it start to spread out of the middle east and was named Roman Catholic.So this must make The Roman Catholic the true Christian religion, about 500 years after this Islam was founded and with the death of Muhammad was split into two Sunni and sheite.
But once again rulers were not happy been under the control of the Pope So the founding religion of Christian began to split,I will name a few African and Caribbean,Anglican(church of England),Asian,Baptist,Brethren,Church of Scotland,Congregational,Free church of scotland,Independent Evangelical,Methodist,Orthodox,Pentecostal,Quaker,Salvation Army,United Reform Church,Welsh Chapel and Capel Cymraeg.
And these are just the ones in the UK.This is what makes people stop believing in christianity.
The only two religions that are not stable Both stem from a brake from Judaism.
christians are becoming fewer muslims are increasing.
Regards
Rex
 

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Humans, being what they are, like to try to run things their own way. *shrug* Doesn't make God's Word any less true. ;) It simply shows humanity's failings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
LauraMJ said:
Humans, being what they are, like to try to run things their own way. *shrug* Doesn't make God's Word any less true. ;) It simply shows humanity's failings.
Hi LauraMJ
But can you imagine trying to decide who to vote for, if we had so many political parties
But this is a post not is there a God or not,But if we want to believe in god which one of the sects do we use to worship in.
Regards
Rex.
 

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LauraMJ said:
Humans, being what they are, like to try to run things their own way. *shrug* Doesn't make God's Word any less true. ;) It simply shows humanity's failings.
True, like making up the bible, the koran and the torah.
 

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I do not believe that God wants one to worship in a sect or use a ritual or certain denomination, etc. One needs to seek God's face. If one truly wants to KNOW God, search for God in your heart, in your soul, not in any of Man's rituals or religions or sects...........man is fallible and prone to pride and division........God is not. Search for God by calling to Him personally, by asking Him to reveal Himself to you personally........with an open heart and mind. Don't depend on the trappings of religion and rituals to help you find God. God wants you to worshp HIM, not give your allegiance to a particular religion or sect. God does not care about religion, denominations, trappings and such, He only cares about YOU. He wants a personal, real relationship with YOU, just as one has with their spouse, with the love of their life.......it would not matter if you lived as an American, or a Russian, or a Chinese, or anything else, what matters is that two people love each other and have a relationship. You can do that anywhere in the world, right? Can two people ONLY love each other in one specific way, within one set of rules that would apply to everyone's life? Would you not agree that would be ridiculous? Why contain God's relationship with each individual to one way? What matters is that a person knows God through having a personal, very real relationship with Jesus Christ, having accepted Him as their savior. The same way that all that matters in a marriage is that two people know each other by having a very real, personal, loving relationship with each other. All else, all other facets and how they live within that relationship is details that can be very different from one couple to another, how they live, their situations, can be very different......but the defining factor is that they LOVE the other with all that they are. Their every thought and action is centered around showing and building and maintaining that love. This is what God wants with us and why Christ died for us. Just as a spouse would throw themselves in front of a bullet without a thought to save the other's life, just as a mother or father would do the same for their child, so has Jesus done for us, so that we may no longer be separated and die apart from God, but may live with Him.

It seems to me that you are trying to put God in a box..............can you put LOVE in a box? God IS love. ;) You cannot put God, nor love, in a box, you can only experience it for yourself.
 

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LauraMJ said:
It seems to me that you are trying to put God in a box..............can you put LOVE in a box? God IS love. ;) You cannot put God, nor love, in a box, you can only experience it for yourself.
So what you're saying is god thinks outside the box.
:D ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
LauraMJ said:
I do not believe that God wants one to worship in a sect or use a ritual or certain denomination, etc. One needs to seek God's face. If one truly wants to KNOW God, search for God in your heart, in your soul, not in any of Man's rituals or religions or sects...........man is fallible and prone to pride and division........God is not. Search for God by calling to Him personally, by asking Him to reveal Himself to you personally........with an open heart and mind. Don't depend on the trappings of religion and rituals to help you find God. God wants you to worshp HIM, not give your allegiance to a particular religion or sect. God does not care about religion, denominations, trappings and such, He only cares about YOU. He wants a personal, real relationship with YOU, just as one has with their spouse, with the love of their life.......it would not matter if you lived as an American, or a Russian, or a Chinese, or anything else, what matters is that two people love each other and have a relationship. You can do that anywhere in the world, right? Can two people ONLY love each other in one specific way, within one set of rules that would apply to everyone's life? Would you not agree that would be ridiculous? Why contain God's relationship with each individual to one way? What matters is that a person knows God through having a personal, very real relationship with Jesus Christ, having accepted Him as their savior. The same way that all that matters in a marriage is that two people know each other by having a very real, personal, loving relationship with each other. All else, all other facets and how they live within that relationship is details that can be very different from one couple to another, how they live, their situations, can be very different......but the defining factor is that they LOVE the other with all that they are. Their every thought and action is centered around showing and building and maintaining that love. This is what God wants with us and why Christ died for us. Just as a spouse would throw themselves in front of a bullet without a thought to save the other's life, just as a mother or father would do the same for their child, so has Jesus done for us, so that we may no longer be separated and die apart from God, but may live with Him.

It seems to me that you are trying to put God in a box..............can you put LOVE in a box? God IS love. ;) You cannot put God, nor love, in a box, you can only experience it for yourself.
Hi again laura.
Well that is one of the best replies I have read about god,and it makes a lot of sense.So why do we have these religious places run by man do you believe the same as me that it is these religions that is the cause of most of the trouble in the world
Regards
Rex
 

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This has been brought up before in this thread. I'd copy and paste what I wrote before, but I think it would be better to simply provide a link to that post within it's thread, so you can see others thoughts on this subject as well as my own.

Click here.
 

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one thing that all these religion threads have shown me is there are a lot of people out there with "spiritual" values that are not religious, in any organized sense....to a person, they seem to have recognized how divisive people can get, when the get some kind of holy word (ANY holy word)

i find that....encouraging
 

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rexgrant said:
Hi again laura.
Well that is one of the best replies I have read about god,and it makes a lot of sense.So why do we have these religious places run by man do you believe the same as me that it is these religions that is the cause of most of the trouble in the world
Regards
Rex
I think religions that take their eyes and their focus off of God cause most of the trouble in this world. I also think that "religion" is one of the most powerful concepts known to man, and as such, has a terrifying ability to wreak havok. I also think that Satan is fully aware of this. He is also fully aware of man's tendancy to want things in "explainable" form, to want things in a box and easily understandable, and he takes both of these ideas and combines them for his purposes. He takes humanity's desire for control, humanity's pridefulness, the appeal of an easily understood, ritualized, boxed form of religion that does nothing to create a personal relationship with God, and combines them into a powerful idea of a religion that is under MAN'S control.......this allows man to run it as he desires, and of course humans are fallible and selfish and prideful........These religions very sneakily and insiduously allow followers to take their eyes off of God, to follow their own pride instead of God, to think they can put God in a box and only take Him out when they feel like it, all the while thinking they are "religious"............

I am not saying one should not gather together to worship, not at all. What I am saying is that when people gather together, it should BE to worship GOD, not the church, the denomination, the sect, the religion, the trappings........... Their allegiance should not be to any one idea/concept/religion/sect/division ......this is all man-made ideas and concepts. Their allegiance should be to God only. When people gather together, nothing should matter except glorifying and worshiping God. This is what God defines as "His church," and Christ's bride; believers that focus on and seek God, nothing else.
 

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iltos said:
one thing that all these religion threads have shown me is there are a lot of people out there with "spiritual" values that are not religious, in any organized sense....to a person, they seem to have recognized how divisive people can get, when the get some kind of holy word (ANY holy word)

i find that....encouraging
Why does it have to be "holy"? Is there some need for divine inspiration to get people to act the way they should even absent "holy" words. Seems like another crutch or justification to do what you should do.
 

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LauraMJ said:
. I also think that Satan is fully aware of this.
Why is there a need for Satan? Is your contention that absent Satan man would act in a holy manner? Nothing more then artificial concepts to get men to act the way they should absent the bible or koran or torah or any other religious tome you wish to divine as holy.
 

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Hi Rex,

Trying to mix "true" with "Religion" is fraught with conflict and such difficulty that it may be viewed as an oxymoronic phrase.

Truth does not exist without False, and from one perspective, almost every religion can be considered false from the point of view that the existence of God can never be proven, at least as far as human beings understand the concept of God.

Religion, on the other hand, rests on having "Faith". If you are a believer and have faith, then it is your choice to follow whatever religion suits you. That is called freedom of religion.

-- Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
lotuseclat79 said:
Hi Rex,

Trying to mix "true" with "Religion" is fraught with conflict and such difficulty that it may be viewed as an oxymoronic phrase.

Truth does not exist without False, and from one perspective, almost every religion can be considered false from the point of view that the existence of God can never be proven, at least as far as human beings understand the concept of God.

Religion, on the other hand, rests on having "Faith". If you are a believer and have faith, then it is your choice to follow whatever religion suits you. That is called freedom of religion.

-- Tom
Hi Tom.
Good reply,Can not argue with that
Rex
 

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LauraMJ said:
I think religions that take their eyes and their focus off of God cause most of the trouble in this world. I also think that "religion" is one of the most powerful concepts known to man, and as such, has a terrifying ability to wreak havok. I also think that Satan is fully aware of this. He is also fully aware of man's tendancy to want things in "explainable" form, to want things in a box and easily understandable, and he takes both of these ideas and combines them for his purposes. He takes humanity's desire for control, humanity's pridefulness, the appeal of an easily understood, ritualized, boxed form of religion that does nothing to create a personal relationship with God, and combines them into a powerful idea of a religion that is under MAN'S control.......this allows man to run it as he desires, and of course humans are fallible and selfish and prideful........These religions very sneakily and insiduously allow followers to take their eyes off of God, to follow their own pride instead of God, to think they can put God in a box and only take Him out when they feel like it, all the while thinking they are "religious"............

I am not saying one should not gather together to worship, not at all. What I am saying is that when people gather together, it should BE to worship GOD, not the church, the denomination, the sect, the religion, the trappings........... Their allegiance should not be to any one idea/concept/religion/sect/division ......this is all man-made ideas and concepts. Their allegiance should be to God only. When people gather together, nothing should matter except glorifying and worshiping God. This is what God defines as "His church," and Christ's bride; believers that focus on and seek God, nothing else.
in a broader sense, methinks this is what i was saying too...i know that your specific views, Laura, will take some issue with some of what i'm saying, but this especially caught my eye in your post
I am not saying one should not gather together to worship, not at all.
mostly 'cause the first part got me to thinking (again) about the word "god" and how it has become so many different things to so many different people...as well, of course, as even becoming embued with different qualites within the same religion

just seems that the notion of worshipping god without acknowledging the reality of differing views takes god right out of the worship, making it just the thing that you don't want to happen

in there somewhere is the source of organized religion's divisiveness, imo...tho i understand that for you, it may be more closely linked to satan, perhaps....certainly human failings play a role.

anyway, about worship....to me, it can include the more loosely defined "celebration", in the right context...the two being interrelated when their purpose coincides....which to me is to acknoweledge (worship, celebrate) something beyond, and greater than, the junk we keep in our heads, something (anything) that allows us to experience the connectivity of our 'self' (heart and mind and body) to that something greater...and through that connection, to better understand each other.

whether that experience comes from worshipping god in a church, or celebrating creativity at burning man is not the defining factor of religion, imo
 

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Why is there a need for Satan?
I believe in God, God has stated that there is a Satan, therefore I believe Satan exists.

Truth does not exist without False, and from one perspective, almost every religion can be considered false from the point of view that the existence of God can never be proven,
You cannot prove what "love" is to a person, either, until they have experienced it for themselves. Once they have experienced it, though, the "truth" of it is apparent.
at least as far as human beings understand the concept of God
. Which is exactly my point, humans cannot put God in a box and understand Him completely. He has to be experienced, and even then, just as with love, some parts of it will always remain beyond description or understanding. :)
 

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'True' As in cateogorically correct and without question? No religion fits into that, and religion itself depends on faith without questioning, when you question any religion, cracks begin to form in faith. Most people who claim to be religious and questioning of their belief usually have a confirmation bias operating somewhere. http://skepdic.com/confirmbias.html
 

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iltos said:
one thing that all these religion threads have shown me is there are a lot of people out there with "spiritual" values that are not religious, in any organized sense....to a person, they seem to have recognized how divisive people can get, when the get some kind of holy word (ANY holy word)

i find that....encouraging
I think this is probably the perfect place to test out a theory of mine - that people who follow organized religions offer more to the world than people who are merely 'spiritual', and for the very same reason that they also create mroe conflict - the social element of religion.

Studies have shown (heard it on the radio so I can't cite a source) that religious people contribute more to charity(both in terms of money and time/effort) than those who do not regularly attend some type of spiritual service.

Why?

I think it's because of the social aspect of religious service, an aspect not shared by people who practice an individual spirituality.

Back to the thread title then, this would mean, that any religion, as long as it is organized, is "the true" religion, as compared to spirituality or a lack of religion.

Thoughts?
 

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religon if it is a real religon is a wraper for spritual devlopment
if a religon has with in itself the seeds of enlightenment it is a true religon
fighting over the color of the wraper is missing the whole point of it all
 
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