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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
after reading this artical

I wondered if this goes on all the time.. i mean.. i would guess witht he life style they lead.. close enough to cult like that this stuff goes on behind the scenes all the time...

http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2004/03/26/news/00lead.prt

Amish arrested for assault in Vernon County

By ED HOSKIN | La Crosse Tribune
VIROQUA, Wis. — An Amish woman's claims of repeated sexual assault over 10 years has led to the arrests of four Amish people in Vernon County.

William Kempf, 77, Johnny Byler, 26, and Eli Byler, 24, were arrested Wednesday and released on bond the same day.

Each will be charged with more than one count of sexual assault of a child when they appear in court Monday, District Attorney Tim Gaskell said.

A fourth person arrested, Sally Kempf, 49, will be charged with failure to protect a child, Gaskell said. She also was released on bond.

An investigation was launched after a 20-year-old woman left the community and sought help from a non-Amish friend, Sheriff Gene Cary said. The friend contacted Cary, and the arrests were made two days later, he said.

The Bylers are brothers, and the Kempfs are the brothers' mother and stepfather.

Cary said it is rare for law enforcement to have contact with the local Amish community, whose members choose to live simple, religious-oriented lives and shun many modern conveniences.

"It's a very quiet community," Cary said. "Many times, if they have something even like a mailbox vandalism, they hesitate on reporting it. They kind of take care of things themselves."

Intervention was necessary, Gaskell said, because "we have a sexual assault victim who has reported this to law enforcement."

"It's no longer a hush-hush situation," Gaskell said. "These were criminal behaviors perpetrated on this victim. It doesn't matter who commits the crime."

The allegations against the Bylers are more serious than those against their stepfather, though the law doesn't differentiate between types of sexual contact with a child, Gaskell said.

The woman reported she had been repeatedly sexually assaulted over 10 years in both Pennsylvania and Vernon County. She said the local assaults occurred at two residences in the towns of Harmony and Webster, Cary said.

A report will be sent to Pennsylvania authorities, Cary said.

Those arrested were cooperative "for the most part," Cary said. He declined to elaborate, saying, "some of this may end up being used in trial, and we don't want to do anything to jeopardize our case."

While police contact with local Amish is historically minimal, members of the religious sect have been arrested in the past in Vernon County, "but many times they are on the fringe," Cary said.

"By that I mean they are leaving the clan, the religion," he said. "We've had some scrapes, but nothing of this magnitude."

The fact the suspects are Amish meant the investigation was not routine, Cary said.

"It can be a more difficult process because of their religious beliefs and that sort of thing," Cary said.

"You've got to be especially careful of their rights because they don't really understand and they don't follow Miranda (rights) and things of that nature," he said. "Things have to be explained in a more concise manner."

Amish people generally don't like being photographed for religious reasons, and the Kempfs both asked that jail booking shots not be taken. The sheriff's department complied with the request
 

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Hi Ashe,


I think this to be abnormal in the Amish community.
Although most people in my community are of a completely different faith and lifestyle than the Amish, I've always had a high regard for their morality.
But as we are all human, there are bound to be those that don't live up to their claimed beliefs.

I truly hope this is an isolated case.


Jack
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, Im from the cornfields.. and growing up there were alot of amish around me... and i knew a few of them very well..

there were a few boys that hung around with us that ended up bein "shun" from their communities for partying with us...

I just wondered with this world going in the wrong direction it is, I would guess that the Amish would be going with it..

The Amish who are my age now... growing up wanting to be more like the rest of the world around them rather then their own culture..

the grass is always greener on the other side.. so we believe
 

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you can see the breakdown in morality in this country, from a street person to the highest official

I have heard it said that it was the reason for the fall of Rome
lack of real morality

This question of lack of morality all around us, is an important one.

Can we even say our own president is of good christian morality?
And many of the high ups? Is this a major thing missing?

perhaps morality will weigh heavier upon our backs in the future even more than we realize.
 

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Originally posted by izme:
you can see the breakdown in morality in this country, from a street person to the highest official

I have heard it said that it was the reason for the fall of Rome
lack of real morality

This question of lack of morality all around us, is an important one.

Can we even say our own president is of good christian morality?
And many of the high ups? Is this a major thing missing?

perhaps morality will weigh heavier upon our backs in the future even more than we realize.
:up:

Oldie
 

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Well, the Romans ate and drank from cups and bowls containing a lead-based glaze that some think led to the fall of Rome. Mayhaps thats how the lack of morality thing came along.

I don't think people today are any less morale or violent than people of the past. Sexual assault has been around since the beginning of man. I'm sure they aren't the first couple of Amish people to sexually assault someone...

Sometimes I think people overlook the past - I mean, did we all start out as saints and have been slowly becoming more satanic as a race as time goes on?

Politicians have always had their morales in question. Thats 'cuz their human.
 

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I don't this is a result of a corrupt moral fabric. Stuff like this has been happening for years, its just now being REPORTED.
The only thing I find as odd as this news snippet is Ash hanging out on Civ. Deb. Last time I checked, she said this place was scary and filled with crazies.:D

p.s. Ash doesn't write or call, mor respond to e-mail. Someone remind me why she's my friend again.:p
 

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America Needs true Morality to be strong and flourish, as does the world

I see a great weekness of morality falling over America like a storm cloud.

The Romans Murdered they're own blood, married family ect. ect. Murder, rape ect. was commonplace.
It is written that the Fall of the Roman Empire had alot to do with lack of morality.

I think if any country or person is lacking of true morality (many out there) is void of understanding it and living by it, this creates a great weekspot and void in the very fiber of our Nation.

We must learn from the past
and use them as examples applicable to now.
tall order though
 

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Trouble is fish
who gets to decide what that true morality is?
I agree that the situation is as you say.
But there is a conflict in this country on what that
'true morality' should be.
Not much seems to be done to improve things as
a polarized public is locked in a struggle to impose
particular beliefs into a solution.


So , maybe the question would be, what is 'true morality'
and how is it applied to the citizen?
 

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QUOTE: "We must learn from the past
and use them as examples applicable to now.
tall order though"

Amen!
 

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Originally posted by Stoner:
Trouble is fish
who gets to decide what that true morality is?
I agree that the situation is as you say.
But there is a conflict in this country on what that
'true morality' should be.
Not much seems to be done to improve things as
a polarized public is locked in a struggle to impose
particular beliefs into a solution.

So , maybe the question would be, what is 'true morality'
and how is it applied to the citizen?
This is a big question stoner
as each individual is conditioned by society
the examples of Morality are decreasing.
This is mostly a personal attribute
But I feel some need some lessons LOL

How can someone claim to be religious and then not live by it's Ideals of morality? your guess is as good as mine

How does greed and other weaknesses of us figure in?

Morality is a doctrine or system of moral conduct : particular moral principles or rules of conduct
& conformity to ideals of right human conduct

So how we do this is a hard question, but perhaps if more of us lived by this doctrine? (more like a way of life)
Thinking of Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged, in which greedy government officials rob and cripple the nation’s producers and industrialists and reward the shiftless scum in the name of so called “morality”. The true morality is producing for profit?
Social services, such as Medicare and the welfare system, are killing the world? Higher taxes for the rich, and requiring people to work for “the greater good” result in lower productivity ect.
As we continue further and further down the negative side of social “morality”, we regress further towards our own savage past? If we punish those who work and reward those who don’t, eventually people will begin to compete with each other, not to see who can do the most and best, but to see who can do the least and worst. Society will begin watching its neighbors for any sign of incompetence in order to become worse. People will work to fail, not succeed. The world will collapse upon itself, and the only excuse the lazy and the greedy will have is, “But I didn’t mean for it to be like this!”
True morality is working to succeed, not punishing those who do.

Morality is a bigger picture than I fully understand
How I percieve this is in the apparent lack of it.
 

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All this talk about the fall of Rome as a result of poor morals!! Who's kidding who here?

Our ancestors were running around with clubs and eating each other until the Romans came along and civilised most of Europe.

Who gave us central heating - sewage systems - roads - and most renown of the lot - the good old Roman orgy - enjoyed to this day by many throughout the civilised world


Ciao ciao - Oldie
 

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I see the breakdown of the family as the main problem in our society.
When I was a Kid growing up in the 70's, not a single one of my friends parents were divorced. And all but one of their Mothers stayed at home.
Now, my oldest daughter's (13) friends...let's see..wow, the exact opposite.. all but one live in a single parent home.
I shudder to think what her generation will grow up to be, I sadly believe the sanctity of marriage will totally disappear, and by, say..2015, probably 50% or better of ALL children will be born out of wedlock.
 

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Absolutely Oldie ;) :up:
The roman's are just one example

but how can we say with a clean conscience that we are very moral or our country is as a whole?
Our leaders of all, should conduct our Nation with strong moral principles or be weakened by lack of it?

people are free to have good morals or not and this is a big picture. How it helps or hinders involves the entire world at times.

Being civilized and having good morals are 2 different things Oldie
We have improved a great deal, but are also lacking in morality I Feel. And we are still whacking eachother over the heads with clubs ect. :D :D


So how important is it for our Government or people's or any nation to have a strong social morality?

Your guess is as good as mine on how we fix it and the exact level of this lack of morality throughout the world.
 

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I think morality on a nationwide level comes with unity towards a certain goal. "Manifest Destiny" for instance...but morality isn't always a good thing globally. Morals drive us at times to do things very unmoral to another people, like colonialism...religious morals to convert "uncivilized" people to christianity.

morality is something that shifts, its our own vision of what we preceive and presume is right and wrong, and it changes constantly. So one can't really say morals are falling or that there are a lack of them, but more that morals are shifting. whether that shifting is good or bad at a given time is up to your particular point of view, and is sort of a question-of-the-ages type thing, right up there with the belief in a god...and has taken place at particular times by particular people since the dawn of man.

Now there are some things that are obviously bad, but I would hope that would have to do more with common sense than with morals...

afterall, it was Hitler's morals that led him to genocide...and the Pope's morals that led to the Crusades...
 

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Originally posted by WarC:
I think morality on a nationwide level comes with unity towards a certain goal. "Manifest Destiny" for instance...but morality isn't always a good thing globally. Morals drive us at times to do things very unmoral to another people, like colonialism...religious morals to convert "uncivilized" people to christianity.

morality is something that shifts, its our own vision of what we preceive and presume is right and wrong, and it changes constantly. So one can't really say morals are falling or that there are a lack of them, but more that morals are shifting. whether that shifting is good or bad at a given time is up to your particular point of view, and is sort of a question-of-the-ages type thing, right up there with the belief in a god...and has taken place at particular times by particular people since the dawn of man.

Now there are some things that are obviously bad, but I would hope that would have to do more with common sense than with morals...

afterall, it was Hitler's morals that led him to genocide...and the Pope's morals that led to the Crusades...
;) :up:

very good points
 

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Originally posted by iamwhatiseem:

When I was a Kid growing up in the 70's, not a single one of my friends parents were divorced. And all but one of their Mothers stayed at home.
Do you see the connection there?? It doesn't necessarily mean all those marriages were happy and healthy. Because of the fact that all those Moms were at home, and not earning a paycheck of their own, they really had few options. When women entered the workforce, they gained the power to be independent and self-sufficient. I don't view the rising divorce rate as a drop in moral values, I see it as people doing what they need to do, to have a good life. IMO, parents are not doing their kids any favors by staying in an unhappy marriage, and I believe that, we as the kids that grew up in the 60's and 70's, realized that..... and are just applying what we learned back then to our lives now.

About morality in general today. There are good people, and there are not-so-good people... always have been... always will be. I personally believe that the good FAR outnumber the not-so-good. It's just that the bad stuff always gets the media attention, sad really, after a while, it seems that's all there is.
 
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