[oldie]

A few thousand posts have been made so far regarding the situation in Iraq. Maybe it's time for a concensus amongst TSGs members ?

Allow me first to admit that I was 100% in favour of the joint invasion of Iraq in 2003, as was the case with the British (all party) Parliamentary vote. I now admit to being in favour of a total withdrawal of all coalition forces in the shortest possible time frame. U Turn ? .. yes indeed.

So .. it's over to you

Regards - Oldie

 

[~Candy~]

Easier said than done BTW, where is the poll?

 

[oldie]

It's showing for me here in the Med - the poll that is

 

[~Candy~]

You must have still been working on it when I posted

 

[oldie]

You must have still been working on it when I posted

Snail pace mail at this festive time of year incidently .. Felice Navidad

 

[poochee]

Aim for a 6 months pullout. A goal must be set!

 

[LANMaster]

Make CLEAR definition of victory, even if it needs to be redefined at this point, then make plans to achieve it swiftly and then get out.

 

[~Candy~]

The hard facts are....if the U.S. pulls out, it's a free for all for all terrorists.......pure, plain and simple.

You'd have to put military on the entire surrounding borders to keep the trouble inside.

 

[LANMaster]

The hard facts are....if the U.S. pulls out, it's a free for all for all terrorists.......pure, plain and simple.

You'd have to put military on the entire surrounding borders to keep the trouble inside.

Yup

 

[~Candy~]

Snail pace mail at this festive time of year incidently .. Felice Navidad

Oh, and it's FELIZ unless you were thinking sheep

 

[oldie]

The hard facts are....if the U.S. pulls out, it's a free for all for all terrorists.......pure, plain and simple.

And if we (including we Brits I hasten to add) stay .. assuming you mean there to be no time frame for an orderly withdrawal .. then we have what ?

Either way it will be a Vietnam parte due .. a no win situation for the coalition forces :down:

Both the (British) general public and Parliament have done a U turn regarding Iraq.

As to the cost in lives and dollars

 

[~Candy~]

I agree, it's Vietnam all over again, but this time with a larger consequence. We could have walked away from Vietnam, and what harm would have been done?

 

[Dzurlord]

Make CLEAR definition of victory, even if it needs to be redefined at this point, then make plans to achieve it swiftly and then get out.

I agree. Also take the gloves off. Kill the Terrorists where they are. Civilian casualties are gonna happen. Do your best to minimize them but not at the cost of the mission. The quicker we win and the quicker civillians stop getting killed, Since most of the civillians are being blown up by the Terrorists.

 

[~Candy~]

Exactly. War is war. You kill them all until the resistance stops.....God sorts them out.

Crass....but realistic.

Didn't we learn anything from Hiroshima?

 

[oldie]

The most pertinent point of this thread is to guage the shift (if any) in members views. As I have already pointed out, I have experienced a complete reversal of my opinion regarding our position in / on Iraq. I feel sure there must be others here who's opinions have done a U turn ?

Again .. over to you chaps on this one

 

[Fidelista]

The hard facts are....if the U.S. pulls out, it's a free for all for all terrorists.......pure, plain and simple.

You'd have to put military on the entire surrounding borders to keep the trouble inside.

I disagree with that. I think --given time , the "terrorists" will be as welcome in the new Iraq as they were in pre-invasion Iraq. They will be hunted and killed. Few govts will share power with them long. They {Govt} will seek to consolidate their power and smash all rivals. Its a free for all now.
As to your Viet-nam comment >> "We could have walked away from Vietnam, and what harm would have been done?" . Thats exactly what we did , just fooled around for years talking about a "win" for the South--hearts and minds stuff.
This comment I really disagree with, in fact I don't even understand it >>>
"Exactly. War is war. You kill them all until the resistance stops.....God sorts them out.

Crass....but realistic.

Didn't we learn anything from Hiroshima? "
Since when did G Bush lay out those plans ? . This war was sold as ..........well , it was sold as so many things by the administration , I wouldn't know where to begin. A ever changing story , or pack of lies , depending on how you view it.
I guess their story now is Democracy for Iraq --or something .
Point is --it was never sold to public as total war, a war against the Iraqi people as you describe, nor has it been conducted as one. To do so would have contradicted everything told the American Public. To so now would put the whole adventure into the realm of the ultimate lie. We were there to liberate -- happy Arabs ,remember?.
I share your frustration , I felt it before the invasion, but this "war" cannot be confused with a real one --total war. It was never a stated aim to defeat the Iraqi people. >f

 

[Mulderator]

I disagree with that. I think --given time , the "terrorists" will be as welcome in the new Iraq as they were in pre-invasion Iraq. They will be hunted and killed. Few govts will share power with them long. They {Govt} will seek to consolidate their power and smash all rivals. Its a free for all now.

So then are you and the rest of the chorus on the left going to villainize the Democrats if they don't pull the troops out?

 

[Blackmirror]

With Saddam being executed within 30 days i hope the troops will take extra precautions... There may be trouble ahead !!!!!!

 

[Mulderator]

With Saddam being executed within 30 days i hope the troops will take extra precautions... There may be trouble ahead !!!!!!

Not to reiterate this but its been said a 1000 times and of course lost on those that have a political agenda, but the mere fact that Hussein was removed and will be executed is in itself of incaculable benefit. The reason Hussein was so brazen in the first place was he believed the world would not allow the US to remove him. And further, was most of the people clamoring to "bring the troops home" don't realize if you leave the place to deteriorate and another dictator is put in power, then you send the message around the world to all "would-be" Husseins and Hitlers and Noriega's and pick your bad guy that "crime does pay", "terrorism does pay". Yes--I can conquer by force and I can rule with terrori and no one is going to do a damn thing about it because even though the US has the power to crush me, the world will not allow them to do it because it can no longer stomach armed conflicts!

 

[Wino]

Stay forever and make Iraq the 51st state.:up: