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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

I have been running for around a year now win98se, IE 5.01, and OE 5.50?

I have never updated any of them. No security updates, nothing. They are all in their original form. During this time period, I have never had any BSODs or GPFs. No errors period.

The only problems I have experienced, are 4 complete system freezes. This means no keyboard or mouse input. The only way to get out of it was the reset switch on front panel. Three of the freezes occured during audio editing. The other one was in IE, but while recording a cassette tape to HD with the audio editing software mentioned above running. These are the only times I have seen scandisk in the last year(except after a few power interuptions).

I also had a problem with McAfee VS slowing my system to a crawl during application loading, after upgrading from 128 ram to 512 ram. That was resolved with NAV.

I have tons of software on my system, and have tried out and removed tons more.

My computer is online by dialup an average of 4-6 hours a day. The only security I use is Zonealarm, Norton AV 2002(recently), and AdAware. As far as I know, I have never had a virus, worm, or trojan infect my system during this time. I have intercepted a few, though.

I don't have any problems connecting to or viewing websites.

I do secure transactions online(stock trading, banking, purchases) and have no problems.

I am an online gamer, and haven't had any problems there.

My system is(and has been) fast, smoothe, and reliable(rock solid). It digests (almost) everything I throw at it. I couldn't be happier with it.

I have never defragged my HDs.

Seeing all the problems people have with their systems, am I just lucky or what ?

Keeping all this in mind, is there any reason you can think of why I should update anything?
 

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Well I just wonder why you would want to fix something that isn't broke.
It sounds like you don't have any problems but you should run Windows Update and it will tell you of any critical updates that you need for security etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
But I hear of many people reporting problems after they instal MS updates. Why would I want to introduce any problems on a system that has no problems ?

I ran Windows Update and it ask me "Do you want to install and run "Windows Update Control Package" signed........."

I said no. What benefit would there be for me to update ?
 

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Hi Ottomatic

I think your question will solicit the whole gammut of opinion on updating in general - it is very subjective (cost being prime mover in my case) but as to the benefits of Windows Update.......
My own experience began with an update that managed to completely crash my PC and resulted in the total replacement of the whole system under warranty.
To cut a long story short I am extremely wary of Win Update and on a system such as yours, where updates could be many and varied, I agree with LadyLisa - if it ain't broke...... (If you really want to check out the availability of updates then take a look at what's on offer on the MS site - notice the chaff and the many updates that your NAV has dealt with anyway.)
When you start getting problems you find irritating (slow games, hang-ups, and the like) and a general clean-up of your system gives no improvements, or your HD and/or processor are at their limit, then you will know its time to change.
Oh yes, and when you feel you've got more money than you need!
Until that day............
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Mike, sounds like your opinion of the Windows Update is basically the same as mine.

As far as OS upgrade, I think I'll wait till the bugs are worked out just as I've done in the past, or until I need some functionality that 98se doesn't provide. But when I do, it will be on a different harddrive. That way, I'll still have my trusty 'ol 98 to fall back on.
:)
So NAV takes care of many of the security updates? No need for redundancy then.

I just want someone to explain to me what it is about my system as it stands, that makes it insecure and less functional without these updates. It looks like to me, 90% of the users install Windows updates. Whare are the reasons ? Can no one tell me ?

Same goes for IE and OE. Explainations please.

Otto
 

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I always update my operating system. I install all critical updates. I upgrade my browser shortly after a new release as well. I've never had a virus, my computer rarely locks up, and overall, I've had hardly any computer problems.

In my experience, (with my own computer and other people's computers) most people experience problems with their computer when they download a lot of junk and install every piece of shareware they can find. They randomly delete files in order to "clean things up". They try to fix a broken computer by updating their operating system or installing new software.

In my opinion, Microsoft's updates are not the problem. Uneducated users are.
 

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Hi again Ottomatic
So NAV takes care of many of the security updates?
The ? at the end of this sentence begs the question: do you install AutoUpdates from Symantec - they occur practically every week. Without them you are leaving your system wide open for attacks. (Hope I'm reading you wrong here). TK is dead right - security is all in this age of viruses, worms, and the nasty little blighters who perpetrate them.
I keep my NAV and Firewall bang up to date and I do keep my 'ear to the ground' for major Windows problems. I am also extremely fussy about the stuff I download or install, making sure it is all scanned before I view it.
Like you I have had no problems with a PC, bar the one mentioned, in all the years from 3.1 onwards. And luck has nothing to do with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi TonyKlein,
So you think it is an extremely good idea to install all critical and security updates, why is that?
What bugs and security leaks do I need to fix? I'm not aware of any. Can you tell what bugs and security leaks I have?
You see not a single sensible reason not to update. So far I don't see a single sensible reason to update. :)

Hi Max19
Why do you install all the updates. Is there something you can't do without them? What has this got to do with never having had a virus. The only time I ever had a virus was several years ago when I had McAfee VS disabled during a couple of months for trouble-shooting purposes. It was not destructive, though. I was running win95b at the time and had all the critical and security updates installed. This didn't keep me from getting a virus. :)

I agree that most problems are due to poor software and boched installations/removel.

EDIT: just compacted the message a little
 

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I apply all the patches to ensure that my Windows computer is as secure as it can be. Patches exist for many reasons. They fix some problems with the OS. I'd rather apply the patch than wait for something to break that could cause a serious system failure.

Some updates also prevent the spread of certain viruses. Have you ever read up on some of the patches released? Their purpose is pretty clear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi Mike, didn't intend to ignore you. I'm in and out here. Got other things going on tonight. It's sort of a juggling act right now.

Yes, I keep NAV updated. I didn't mean to imply that I didn't. Bad wording on my part. I also run the latest firewall version and update the AdAware sig file. Other than that, what else do I need besides a little common sense? :)

BTW, the Nimda worm must be active again. I have been getting a lot of hits from the same (and similar) IPs for the last few days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi Max19
Yes, I have read some of the patch releases. They basicaly state that there is a security hole somewhere or other that might be exploited with malicious intent.....blah, blah, blah. Then they go on to state that there have been no known issues regarding this security flaw...blah, blah. That would be like installing bullet-proof glass and panels on my truck just in case someone decided to shoot at me while I was driving, right?
Tell me, was there patches out for the code red and nimda worms before they hit? I can see the reason for installing win2k patches for these. It seems to me that they are fixing alot of so-called problems that are non-existant. Why didn't I get the nimda or any other worm/virus. Since all I have is the original installs of all my MS software, shouldn't my system be wide open and vunerable to these critters? Maybe Mike is wrong about being lucky :)

I wonder if any of these patches restrict the functionality of a system in any way. Would my system perform as it does now if I installed all the patches.
 

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If you don't want to install the patches then don't. I've always installed the patches, and my computer runs great. Microsoft patches don't restrict the functionality. The vast majority of computer problems are not caused by Microsoft patches. They're caused by user error.

I've never lived in a house that burned down. Why would I want to install smoke alarms?
 

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Far as Updates to Windows go, I had W95B in my old computer for about 2 years, then upgraded to W98SE.
During the 3.5 or so years I had the old computer (200 MHz. Pentium-Pro; 32 Mb RAM) I never installed any of the Updates Microsoft had for 95B or 98SE, & didn't seem to bother anything.
So, If its running the way you want, & are happy with it, don't bother with updating....
 

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Not installing all of the security patches released by MS is like knowing someone has a key to your home but you don't change the locks.

Had everyone kept their PCs up to date with the most recent patches, CodeRed would have been a dud. Since most don't bother, the net's been a mess ever since. My cable receive data light started blinking the day CR hit and hasn't stopped since. It just amazes me that people don't understand the need to keep current with, at the very least, security patches. It takes little or no time to load them and I've never had one cause a single problem. It's just a common sense thing to do .......
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Max19,
Actually, I don't want to install the patches unless I get a reasonable explaination as to why I should. That's why I'm here.
Touche on the smoke alarm analogy, but we're not talking life and death here. If I were trying to protect a business from the boogyman, I might bite the bullet and install all these so-called fixes.
I wonder how many updates there are for my system.....hundreds?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Gary R,
What another user that doesn't install MS updates? 3.5 years without them? How come you are not riddled with worms and viruses. Its a wonder your system will run at all :)
Thanks
 

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Your sarcasm is rude and uncalled for. You don't want to update your system then don't. Your smug attitude toward computer security is exactly what contributes to the existence of worms and viruses on EVERYONE'S computer. Read Bryan's post again. He knows what he's talking about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Bryan
If someone had keys to my house, but had never seen my house and could not find it, the keys would be useless to them, right?. For all they knew, they had keys to a house that didn't even exist. Besides that,(and correct me if I'm wrong) I was under the impression that I had to "let" an intruder into my system(such as executing an email attachment or downloading and installing an infected piece of software) That is, it can't break in on it's own without my assistance. Could this be the common sense part of the equation?

Are you telling me that the security flaw that CodeRed exploited was publicly known and there was a patch for it before CodeRed hit?

It's good to know there are some who have never had any problems with any/all the patches. Maybe these MS patches are not little viruses of their own as I first suspected. :)

Maybe someone would be so kind as to explain to me exactly how my system could be compromised as is without me allowing it?
 

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Newer bugs will infect your system simply by visiting a webpage or reading an email so forget the idea that you somehow need to download, run or open a program or an attachment to get infected. You won't even know you've been infected. By the time Norton's identifies the bug, updates their patterns and finds the bug on your system, you've already been compromised. There are many bugs that aren't effective if you have the most recent fixes or service packs installed prior to their release so relying on an AV program to keep you safe is not the best idea. An AV program is reactive not proactive.

As far as no one knowing where you live on the net, don't fool yourself. It's not hard to find that out. Any webpage that you visit on the net can tell you who you are and where you live if your not secure.

On CodeRed, yes the flaw was known days before CodeRed hit and yes there was a patch available. MS pleaded with people to install it to stop the effects of CR. Many didn't listen or didn't care and as a result, CodeRed lives on months after it was discovered. It's a shame because a simple 30 second update would have stopped it in it's tracks. Many areas of vunerability in software are discovered early on in a virus or worms life but people are slow to respond or don't respond at all when patches are available. Some may get away with it for most of their lives and some won't. I prefer to be safe rather than sorry.

Anyway, just as Max, myself and anyone else in the industry will tell you, it's imperative to apply all security fixes or you leave yourself vunerable. But if you don't want to apply them, then don't. The best advice I can give you is, apply all of them. Good luck ........

If you want to read more about security, I suggest you visit this site.
 
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