[plschwartz]

VIENNA (Reuters) - OPEC on Wednesday forged ahead with tighter oil supply curbs, deaf to consumer country complaints about crude prices recently at 13-year highs.

The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries agreed to turn down the taps despite calls from the United States for cheaper fuel.

The United States had pressed OPEC to lift export restrictions to help control prices at the pump and prevent energy inflation slowing economic growth.

Delegates said cartel powerhouse Saudi Arabia led the push for implementing cuts of one million barrels a day or four percent from April 1, as first agreed in Algiers in February.

"The Saudis have gone from being a reliable OPEC price dove to OPEC's arch price hawk," said independent energy consultant Mehdi Varzi.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....EZSFFA?type=businessNews&storyID=4715532&sect
The article goes on to speculate:

The Saudis have gone from being a reliable OPEC price dove to OPEC's arch price hawk," said independent energy consultant Mehdi Varzi.

"That's because of the demands of the Saudi budget. They need higher and higher oil prices every year to meet current expenditure for a larger and larger population."

The White House stopped short of openly criticizing OPEC but called for adequate supplies. A spokesman said: "It is important for producers not to take actions that hurt our economy."

OPEC blames speculative investment funds, now commanding record positions on energy contracts, for this year's oil price spike.

Gary Ross of leading U.S. energy consultancy PIRA Energy said: "We estimate speculative funds have already invested $15 billion in oil futures contracts in New York and London. This decision is only going to encourage the speculators to stay long on oil markets."

I wonder if these are the only reasons?
I think that they are sending us a message although what seems less clear.
Certainly it is a message to Bush a not very veiled threat.

Clearly a rise in oil prices will effect our economy Does the number $10 rise in oil price = 1% gnp sound right?

 

[bassetman]

I Thought Bush's buddies promised him they'd keep oil cheap?

 

[pyritechips]

Hi John! when you said "Bush's buddies", did you mean those same buddies that financed the Taliban and Sept. 11 attackers? Politics makes for strange bedfellows, huh?

 

[plschwartz]

actually wasn't it clintons dog who was named Buddy

 

[GoneForNow]

A cynic might note that many around here claim that the reason for the war in Iraq was to obtain cheap oil. Doesn't appear to be working, huh?

 

[Izme]

The Saudi's have been bending us over for a long time

and they are laughing at us like the oil puppets we are

the sooner we lose our dependence to foriegn oil the quicker we can tell these arseholes to go to hell! Can't with an oil baron in office though.

OPECs excuses for raising the gas prices are laughable

we are being takin to the cleaners by a bunch of low life Arabs ECT.....

Dance america Dance!

and they are probably funding alot of the terrorist's

no doubt in my mind!

 

[pyritechips]

A cynic might note that many around here claim that the reason for the war in Iraq was to obtain cheap oil. Doesn't appear to be working, huh?

Not obtain: control. And a Sceptic may note that it looks like poor Mr. Bush got took to the cleaners by a bunch of "low life" Arabs (to paraphrase the scaley one)! Of course, if your're going to pour millions into terrorist groups you have to finance it somehow.

Fishy: You said "the sooner we lose our dependence to foriegn oil". Very true, assuming you can lose dependance on foriegn oil. But apparently the majority of American oil imports come from Venezuela? somebody correct me if I am wrong. Again I don't believe Bush's plan has been sucessful. As I stated above, it isn't a question of "obtaining" cheap oil. It is more of a question of "controlling" Mid East oil to use as a political and economic club to beat other countries back into line.

 

[Stoner]

Originally posted by gbrumb:
A cynic might note that many around here claim that the reason for the war in Iraq was to obtain cheap oil. Doesn't appear to be working, huh?

Well, I appear to be the resident cynic

But I've said the one who controls the supply rules the energy markets and that involves most the industrial world.

Price levels don't make them, who control, powerful, it's the profit margins.

Jack

 

[Stoner]

Beat me to it, Jim


but you do need more practice on cynicism

 

[pyritechips]

It's ok Jack; you be the resident Cynic and I'll be the resident Skeptic! We'll just be "negative" and "bash" anything that moves!

 

[Izme]

I added Ect. to the end of that low life arabs sentence

Look, we could run our cars off of cooking oil, yard waste ect. ect.

but that would not be good for the all mighty buck, now would it?
Our Government is just as guilty for doing this big oil scam.
The sooner we stop this the better off we will all be.
But folks have to get some back bone and take charge of all of this. Quit sitting back and letting stuff like this go on.
You are right about Venezuela
but all of these countries have their hands dirty

This sickens me to see. But it is part of the American way?

Maybe someday we will tell our grandchildren that we were once addicted to crude but we learned the error of our ways!

You can call it anything you want, but the recent raise in gas prices is a testement to the big joke of Oil and gas prices.
they know they can raise it to any price and we will have to settle for it.
The whole thing is a big scam! Period!

It is so obvious it's pathetic.

what a shame

 

[flyeater]

Although I realize what a political football gas prices are and how it could have a real impact on the economy, I couldn't care less about gas prices.
I ride my bike everywhere. Easiest way for me to get regular exercise. With our "snow bird" season here it can also be faster then driving in some cases.
I'm averaging 5-6 miles a day with twice that on weekends.
The big drawback is the lousy growth management in this county.
Few sidewalks, virtually no streetlights and no side streets.
All the developers here build so called "communities" which are anything but. Side streets and back routes go nowhere. Most developments only have one entrance/exit and they're usually gated.
No one here expects the developers to be held accountable or to pay their fair share. One local political hack wants to turn toll roads on I-75 over to developers . You should see the way these guys act when they talk about raising impact fees. They'll be damn lucky if we don't see a complete building moratorium.
Of course the largest source of county taxes is gas taxes so I win yet again.

 

[Stoner]

total oil consumption of the major countries of the industrial world.
from
LINK

conservation would be a start fish, but try to imagine where you could make up the difference on a scale like that.

 

[pyritechips]

...I couldn't care less about gas prices.
I ride my bike everywhere....

Well, riding your bike is great! I ride mine too but that is being overly specific - only one small facet of the problem. Yes, cars require lots of oil and gasoline but that is only the most obvious need. Unfortunately our North American industry is geared to run on oil, not only for fuel but also for material. Oil is used to make all kinds of plastics and even drugs. We could all ride bikes but our goods still require oil, unless and until an alternate energy source is developed.

 

[pyritechips]

Interesting graph, Jack. I see even Canada is an oil glutton: 8th largest consumer with only 30 million people!

It would also be interesting to see a per capita consumption chart.

 

[Izme]

Originally posted by Stoner:


conservation would be a start fish, but try to imagine where you could make up the difference on a scale like that.

Yes, I do agree

that is a big order though?

All of the SUVs ect.?

I think that most americans just don't care, Jack

It is the Chicken today, feathers tomarrow syndrome in a profound light.

Even I am guilty of Contributing to this by driving

I have no Idea how to fix it. I just see a huge problem that could have been fixed long ago.

I am by no means an expert on OPEC and oil. I barely see the whole big picture. But I do know a scam when I see one and this is as plain as the nose on your face. Has been for years.

The big auto Dealers are part of the problem also

I am telling you all, until we get rid of this Greedy way of life here in America, We are all doomed!

I cannot say any more without getting really ticked.

I just see through all of this Bulls**t propaganda to the truth!

 

[Stoner]

Hi Jim,

The US is not at the top of the per capita list, but the top users in this category are low in total usage.

Same site:

 

[pyritechips]

Wow! very revealing Jack. I suspected Canada and U.S. would be nect and neck. One interesting observation is the lack of high-tech European countries on the list, except Norway and their presence is understandable. They have to burn huge amounts of fuel just to keep from freezing; they're even colder than Canada!

 

[Cosmic]

The Saudis would be fools not to take their present position.

Oil is priced in dollars, they are paid in dollars. The dollar has fallen a lot in value. So in effect they are being paid less and less in terms of buying power.

So in response to this situation, OPEC has decided to offset the dollar decline by raising the price. Others not on a dollar standard, Europe, Asia, etc in effect see little change. They are buying more dollars for the same of their currency. The people who really will feel this sting is the USA.

This could be said, just OPEC attempting to get steady buying power. They have several things to consider.

1. Higher oil prices can effect the World economy and thus demand for their product.

2. China has started to become a major buyer on World markets.

3. OPEC is in a tug of war with Russia for market share.

4. In theory higher oil prices will finally drive the USA to have something that looks like an energy policy.

5. High oil prices should spark energy conservation and alternative energy sources and far greater usage efficiency.

The Saudis made a good bet. The USA shows zero inclination to adopt sane energy policies. You debate all the points but the oil suppliers are betting their interests will be better served by higher prices, than hurt. I would not disagree with that position.

The underlying problem is the erosion of the USA economy, balance of trade, job exports and forces that are impacting the dollar. The solutions are many, basically the USA economy must be restructured to account for all the changes that have happened and still to happen. It is not a short term problem.

The basic problem is not one of the Saudi, OPEC or others making. The cause of the problem lies fully within the USA.

 

[Izme]

hence oil Baron in office