anybody catch the article today where Gerald Ford spoke about his opinion of numerous presidents? it was conditional that the comments not be revealed until his death. his friendship with Carter is not reflected in his opinion of Carter as a president.
Mass Resignations at Carter Center
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I honestly know no one on left--personally --that wants the Israeli to be wiped out , or without a nation, but you will hear critisism from the left , while the right is generally silent.linskyjack said:
I believe the democrats do support Israel ,and always have , not likely Israel would have survived were it not so. There continues to be strong support in Congress --by both Dems and Repubs --but some of the liberals do have limits . Others offer blanket support regardless of subject.
The lobby? . Not the actual lobbies. By lobby I mean those very vocal defenders of anything Israeli. Make a negative observation of a Israeli policy or action and they make more noise than a frightened flock of geese !
I expect Jews to react to attack, not to would be unrealistic.
I believe Carters book, although written as he sees things, recollects, is not ALL wrong.
One thing that is frustrating about Israel vs Palestine is this . When bargaining for peace , Israel bargains from such a position of power , they are far less likely to make any real consessions. They are not worried with survival of State , and have continued to gain real estate over years. I think thats what frustrates people of my "political bent'.
Its a given that it would be this way as Israel is not only a military power, but a economic one , with complete and unconditional support of a super power.
As far as condemning the Palestinians, it obvious that their leadership has went downhill.
Hamas and other militant groups have made things nearly impossible to fix , and empowered the hawks {likud} in Israel. The best time for resolution has passed , in the 80's IMO.
The future looks pretty bleak to me now and I have no good anwers.
As far as current anti-semitism--hatred of Jews in Europe ? . I can't really offer opinion other than I have read history.
I do know that much support of Israel in the U.S. comes not only from politic, but from religious influences. How this plays in Europe , I don't know.
I am glad to see you recognize that Carter is not a anti-semite, or condones murder of Jews. Thats one reason I read your posts carefully, you don't seem to align with crack-pots.
I do really condemn the lack of free-speech in Europe !. If a nutcase says Jews were not slaughtered in WW2--he has right to make fool of himself.
I am amazed that Europeans would stand for speech restrictions -- not much different than Cuba!.
I guess I am spoiled with U.S.freedoms --proud actually. >f
I expect Carter has said his piece in book, and will probably not debate anyone.laneseda said:
I think people who read his book will make up their own minds without help of Dershowitz .
As far as military blunders , you will hear no excuse for liberals from me.
I remember the "rescue" attempt well. One of the stupidest operations I have seen, no way possible to be successful. If it hadn't failed in desert , even greater loss of life would have happened.
I used to get very excited when these idiotic things were attempted --now I am used to it.
The Carter rescue --the Marine occupation in Lebanon{ Reagan}--occupation of Iraq-- all crazy , and blunders.
Makes one wonder who advises these things ?
Glad you made comment , you are welcome and not a intruder!.
Nobody baying for blood.........yet!
>fNot to worry, we have them house trained and fearful of the whip.laneseda said:
Excellent points made. And don't worry about commenting on Jimmy, turn around is fair play as we find the Queen rather frumpy. Happy Birthday to her by the way and I do forgive her for not waving back to me outside Windsor.laneseda said:
Actually the right is more supportive of the State of Israel then the left. Just look at the neo-cons, the religious right, the Rockefeller Republicans etc. Now you might not know any members of the left who want to destroy the state of Israel. What many want is a ONE STATE solution, in reality the destruction of the state of Israel. Others, by their continuous attacks on Israel (with absolutely no corresponding attacks on Palestenian terrorists), engender the gross anti-semitiism that prevails in most of Europe and throughout the Middle East.Fidelista said:I honestly know no one on left--personally --that wants the Israeli to be wiped out , or without a nation, but you will hear critisism from the left , while the right is generally silent.
I believe the democrats do support Israel ,and always have , not likely Israel would have survived were it not so. There continues to be strong support in Congress --by both Dems and Repubs --but some of the liberals do have limits . Others offer blanket support regardless of subject.
The lobby? . Not the actual lobbies. By lobby I mean those very vocal defenders of anything Israeli. Make a negative observation of a Israeli policy or action and they make more noise than a frightened flock of geese !
I expect Jews to react to attack, not to would be unrealistic.
I believe Carters book, although written as he sees things, recollects, is not ALL wrong.
One thing that is frustrating about Israel vs Palestine is this . When bargaining for peace , Israel bargains from such a position of power , they are far less likely to make any real consessions. They are not worried with survival of State , and have continued to gain real estate over years. I think thats what frustrates people of my "political bent'.
Its a given that it would be this way as Israel is not only a military power, but a economic one , with complete and unconditional support of a super power.
As far as condemning the Palestinians, it obvious that their leadership has went downhill.
Hamas and other militant groups have made things nearly impossible to fix , and empowered the hawks {likud} in Israel. The best time for resolution has passed , in the 80's IMO.
The future looks pretty bleak to me now and I have no good anwers.
As far as current anti-semitism--hatred of Jews in Europe ? . I can't really offer opinion other than I have read history.
I do know that much support of Israel in the U.S. comes not only from politic, but from religious influences. How this plays in Europe , I don't know.
I am glad to see you recognize that Carter is not a anti-semite, or condones murder of Jews. Thats one reason I read your posts carefully, you don't seem to align with crack-pots.
I do really condemn the lack of free-speech in Europe !. If a nutcase says Jews were not slaughtered in WW2--he has right to make fool of himself.
I am amazed that Europeans would stand for speech restrictions -- not much different than Cuba!.
I guess I am spoiled with U.S.freedoms --proud actually. >f
Nahhh, he just thinks that the deliberate targeting of innocent Jews should not be considered "terrorism".Fidelista said:I honestly know no one on left--personally --that wants the Israeli to be wiped out , or without a nation, but you will hear critisism from the left , while the right is generally silent.
I believe the democrats do support Israel ,and always have , not likely Israel would have survived were it not so. There continues to be strong support in Congress --by both Dems and Repubs --but some of the liberals do have limits . Others offer blanket support regardless of subject.
The lobby? . Not the actual lobbies. By lobby I mean those very vocal defenders of anything Israeli. Make a negative observation of a Israeli policy or action and they make more noise than a frightened flock of geese !
I expect Jews to react to attack, not to would be unrealistic.
I believe Carters book, although written as he sees things, recollects, is not ALL wrong.
One thing that is frustrating about Israel vs Palestine is this . When bargaining for peace , Israel bargains from such a position of power , they are far less likely to make any real consessions. They are not worried with survival of State , and have continued to gain real estate over years. I think thats what frustrates people of my "political bent'.
Its a given that it would be this way as Israel is not only a military power, but a economic one , with complete and unconditional support of a super power.
As far as condemning the Palestinians, it obvious that their leadership has went downhill.
Hamas and other militant groups have made things nearly impossible to fix , and empowered the hawks {likud} in Israel. The best time for resolution has passed , in the 80's IMO.
The future looks pretty bleak to me now and I have no good anwers.
As far as current anti-semitism--hatred of Jews in Europe ? . I can't really offer opinion other than I have read history.
I do know that much support of Israel in the U.S. comes not only from politic, but from religious influences. How this plays in Europe , I don't know.
I am glad to see you recognize that Carter is not a anti-semite, or condones murder of Jews. Thats one reason I read your posts carefully, you don't seem to align with crack-pots.
I do really condemn the lack of free-speech in Europe !. If a nutcase says Jews were not slaughtered in WW2--he has right to make fool of himself.
I am amazed that Europeans would stand for speech restrictions -- not much different than Cuba!.
I guess I am spoiled with U.S.freedoms --proud actually. >f
Deliberate targeting of civilians is a form of terrorism, Jew or no.LANMaster said:
No matter whether indiscriminate bombing/shelling of a city-- or a simple car bomb.
It seems to me that the rationale for terror plays a part, after all the U.S.and West are masters of mass destruction of cities.
I think Carter is aware of that fact.
I read nowhere in his book where he condones murder/terror, in fact , it seems to be his mission to stop it.
Is his method wrong ? the way he seeks to implement ? --matter for debate.
If he really did condone murdering Jews , I doubt he would have had the friendship of any Israeli --let alone some in leadership, which he has enjoyed.
I believe his view of how to stop the slaughter , bring peace , is not accepted by some ,seem as wrong, but that is far away from being an anti-semite.
I think you tend to get carried away with your statements when you disagree politically.
Carter seems to me to suffer from a over-active sense of idealism---justice , and wishes that events would follow his expectations --not going to happen there.
Read the book and then bring points to bear, thats what it is for.
Simply parroting some Zionist foes does not convict Carter of being a anti-semite.
Its does the cause of Israel no favor when charges of this kind are leveled at a past -President who has spent so much time promoting peace { and not just in Mid-East}.
BTW, I do agree with linsky about 90% of time . Maybe not how to achieve solution, method, but end result--the one state solution is out of question--never work.>f
No ****e!Fidelista said:
So, you want them to actually admit the facts? That would blow their whole side of the "debate".LANMaster said:
21 - 40 of 46 Posts
