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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Wat is the problem with the stickers ?? Are they say its for Evolution or not...

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- A federal judge in Atlanta, Georgia, has ruled that a suburban county school district's textbook stickers referring to evolution as "a theory not a fact" are unconstitutional.

In ruling that the stickers violate the constitutionally mandated separation between church and state, U.S. District Judge Clarence Cooper ruled that labeling evolution a "theory" played on the popular definition of the word as a "hunch" and could confuse students.

According to The Associated Press, the stickers read, "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."

The disclaimers were put in the books by school officials in 2002.

"Due to the manner in which the sticker refers to evolution as a theory, the sticker also has the effect of undermining evolution education to the benefit of those Cobb County citizens who would prefer that students maintain their religious beliefs regarding the origin of life," Cooper wrote in his ruling.

Cooper said he was ruling on the "narrow issue" of the case, brought against the Cobb County School District and Board of Education by four parents of district students, was whether the district's stickers violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

His conclusion, he said, "is not that the school board should not have called evolution a theory or that the school board should have called evolution a fact."

"Rather, the distinction of evolution as a theory rather than a fact is the distinction that religiously motivated individuals have specifically asked school boards to make in the most recent anti-evolution movement, and that was exactly what parents in Cobb County did in this case," he wrote.

"By adopting this specific language, even if at the direction of counsel, the Cobb County School Board appears to have sided with these religiously motivated individuals."

The sticker, he said, sends "a message that the school board agrees with the beliefs of Christian fundamentalists and creationists."

"The school board has effectively improperly entangled itself with religion by appearing to take a position," Cooper wrote. "Therefore, the sticker must be removed from all of the textbooks into which it has been placed."

Five parents of students and the American Civil Liberties Union had challenged the stickers in court, arguing they violated the constitutional separation of church and state.

The case was heard in federal court last November. The school system defended the warning stickers as a show of tolerance, not religious activism as some parents claimed.

"The Cobb County school board is doing more than accommodating religion," Michael Manely, an attorney for the parents, argued during the trial, according to a report from The Associated Press. "They are promoting religious dogma to all students."

Lawyers for Cobb County, however, argued in court that the school board had made a good-faith effort to address questions that inevitably arise during the teaching of evolution.

"Science and religion are related and they're not mutually exclusive," school district attorney Linwood Gunn said in an AP report. "This sticker was an effort to get past that conflict and to teach good science."

According to the AP, the schools placed the stickers after more than 2,000 parents complained the textbooks presented evolution as fact, without mentioning rival ideas about the beginnings of life.
 

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I think the Judge ruled that creationists were trying, in a roundabout way, to introduce religion in the guise of science. The schoolboard was attempting to infer a religious belief was a scientific theory........it isn't. The forced indoctrination of students to religion in this mannor is illegal in this country. Thus the stickers infering that 'Creationism' was an alternate scientific theory were deemed inappropriate by the judge.



Jack
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think the Judge ruled that creationists were trying, in a roundabout way, to introduce religion in the guise of science. The schoolboard was attempting to infer a religious belief was a scientific theory........it isn't. The forced indoctrination of students to religion in this mannor is illegal in this country. Thus the stickers infering that 'Creationism' was an alternate scientific theory were deemed inappropriate by the judge.


Are you saying the problem they are having is taking both religion and other religion views and turning it into scientific theory ...

And are you saying that science and religion should be different and not mixed :eek:

And the students should not learn religion when learning Evolution ..

I thing someone who was writing this had bad grammer .The below statement has me confused :confused:

In ruling that the stickers violate the constitutionally mandated separation between church and state, U.S. District Judge Clarence Cooper ruled that labeling evolution a "theory" played on the popular definition of the word as a "hunch" and could confuse students.
 

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Creationism is NOT a theory, it's a belief. Think about it. Scientists do multiple, repeated tests to create theories. Remember, theories are not neccesarily true, but they are true according to the evidence at hand. Religous people as well as scientists have no way of testing creationism. There is no proof, people believe it through faith. Evolution however, is a theory that has been investigated and tested to the best of science's ability. Science and religion SHOULD be seperate in my eyes, not meaning that scientists have to be atheist/agnostic, but meaning that they should not incorporate religious beliefs into scientific theory. If anyone does do that, it's a whole different brand of science.
 

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fire mat99 said:

Are you saying the problem they are having is taking both religion and other religion views and turning it into scientific theory ...
Yes.......with the probable intent to force students to study/believe a religion in the guise of science while teaching science incorrectly.

And are you saying that science and religion should be different and not mixed :eek:
The two do not compare well by their very own definitions.
Thus, they do not mix without contraversy.

And the students should not learn religion when learning Evolution ..
Students should not be introdoctrinated into a religion while studying a science. Same goes the other way. Science should not be demanded to be taught in a theology course.

I thing someone who was writing this had bad grammer .The below statement has me confused :confused:
Looked OK to me.
 

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fire_mat99 said:
Are you saying the Separation of State & Church is not theocracy :confused:
A theocracy is a state run by God. The conflict is, whose religion is to be used to define 'God'' and determine by what rules we live under and what beliefs we must adhere to?
To be a free nation, it would be a contradiction to have a state imposed belief on religious matters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
A theocracy is a state run by God. The conflict is, whose religion is to be used to define 'God'' and determine by what rules we live under and what beliefs we must adhere to?
To be a free nation, it would be a contradiction to have a state imposed belief on religious matters.
So you are saying they should not impose the US on religious matters but other religious matter in decision making ..
 

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fire_mat99 said:
So you are saying they should not impose the US on religious matters but other religious matter in decision making ..
The government should have no control in religious matters.
Religions should have no control in government matters.

IMHO.
 

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^Agreed. It is impossible to have a multi-cultural nation like the U.S. is said to be if the government has anything to do with religion and vice versa. Theocracy was the reason for the plague, the crusades, the spanish inquisition, the consistant belief that the world is flat, the imprisonment of Galileo and other scientists, slavery of the hebrews in ancient egypt, the death of Aristotle, most wars, and many other things. The civilizations sometimes lasted hundreds of years but the citizens were usually miserable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The government should have no control in religious matters.
Religions should no control in government matters.
Yes you call that Separation of State & Church in Canada we call it some thing else..

Who is Aristotle or Galileo and where they trying to Separate the State & Church :eek:
 

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BTW, I meant Socrates, not Aristotle. Are you saying you don't know who aristotle, socrates and galileo were though? Socrates was a famous philosopher from ancient greece(taught aristotle) who was sentanced to death by hemlock because the theocratic government was afriad he was leading the people away from the greek religion. Galileo discovered many scienitific facts, and was one of those who proposed that the earth was indeed round.

What do you call Seperation of Church & State then?
 
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