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· Gone but Never Forgotten
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A new year, a new thread.

I will start this off with the big changes for 2013. The first is the driver line-up which, as of this time, is not yet complete. The biggest news is Perez moving to McLaren in order to replace Hamilton, who is moving to Mercedes. Let's consider this. Perez has showed signs of raw talent and speed yet is upproven and has made mistakes. I think that it is safe to assume that he will take a back seat to Button, who I believe will (initially at first) feel a surge of motivation, knowing that he will again be top dog. How they both do depends upon McLaren's competitiveness. They should do well, building upon their current car, as there are no major rule changes in anticipation of the new Turbo Era in 2014.

The mighty Schumacher retires (but is contemplation an off-track position with Mercedes), to be replaced by Hamilton. This is one of the most riskiest non-forced driver moves in a very long time. There are many scenarios possible but I will deal with only the three most likely:

  • First, the new Mercedes is a dog, in which case both drivers will struggle in the midfield as Schumey and Rosberg did this year. It will be a disaster for Hamilton. He would have to jump ship to a higher ranked team - assuming there is an available position in 2014 - to regain his status as a Championship contender.
  • The second scenario sees him in a competitive car but not being able to adapt to it, in which case it would be a great embarrassment to fall behind Nico; but I think this chance is a long shot as Lewis has been good at adapting to adverse conditions as far as the car is concerned.
  • Scenario number three sees Mercedes launching a gem of a car and Lewis outshines Rosberg to fight for the championship. This will rejuvenate his career but if Nico falls too far behind he may be bumper for a more competitive driver.

Provisional Driver Line UP.

Red Bull: M. Webber, S. Vettel

McLaren : J. Button, S. Perez

Ferrari: F. Alonso, F. Massa

Mercedes: N. Rosberg, L. Hamilton

Lotus: K. Raikkonen

Force India:

Sauber: N. Hulkenberg, E. Gutiérrez

Toro Rosso: D. Ricciardo, J. Vergne

Williams: P. Maldonado, V. Bottas

Caterham: C. Pic

HRT: P. de la Rosa

Marussia: T. Glock

2012 Post-Mortum:

I just found these, both concerning the repeating champion:

Formula 1: Ferrari consider Sebastian Vettel protest

And:


Formula 1 title leaves sour taste in Sebastian Vettel's mouth
 

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I just found these, both concerning the repeating champion:

Formula 1: Ferrari consider Sebastian Vettel protest
Hence my comment in the last thread how Alonso is a bad loser. Griping via Twitter, he sniped that he needs no miracles, he makes his own miracles in accordance with proper laws.

Yeah, roight:rolleyes:

Ferrari's Luca Colajanni stated in Italy's "Corriere dello Sport" that they (Ferrari) have no intention of lodging any claim. Which probably means they will. :rolleyes:

It's all over the Spanish sports paper "Marca" over here, with its readership demonstrating once again that the very worst losers appear to be Spaniards themselves. As shown (not to put undeserved life back into the topic here) in the overall conviction that Spain's Tour de France winner Alberto Contador was wrongly had for doping, even where he did test positive. Someone fed him a contaminated steak, donchaknow :D

I personally don't care who wins the F1 championship where it's done on skill both in driving and engine and team management and where it makes for good watching. In those respects I'm more than satisfied with last season.

But if the little twerp succeeds in getting the title handed to him this way days after season closed, even where the footage does show Vettel as having been amiss, F1 will go with me the same way as the Tour de France has.

Not so much because of Alonso (one will always have the one or other jerk) but because of the general machinations of F1 (never ever was a retroactive drive thru penalty enacted later than the very same day).

Then we can get back to the disgraceful event of the gear box seal break in Austin and all the other smaller or bigger manipulations and the whole thing will have nothing whatsoever to do anymore with competitive sport.
 

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It shouldn't matter if it's after the race, if SV has done something wrong then a penalty should be levied.

Whilst not being an Alonso fan, it will be great to see if the FIA have the balls to take Vettel's 3rd championship away.
If there wasn't already enough evidence of bad driving the YouTube videos(if genuine) certianly look like he overtook under yellow. Fine? At least 20 seconds, result Alonso champ by 3 points.

Saying that the FIA has history of blindness when it comes to German Champions. If it had been a red and silver car I think we all know what would have happened.

Re 2014 engine changes, at least they have been changed to V6s now, with turbos/KERS, limited quite severely, though.

I really would like to see a real attack on aerodynamics, the cars in the main look ****e. Especially after seeing again some of the old film of say Senna 's McLaren with it's beautiful simplicity, a work of art , not an art of work.

Plus a major rule change , If a PENALTY sends you to the back of the grid, starting from the pit lane should NOT allow you to change major parts/ratios/ wing s etc , beyond what is already allowed. SV would probably never got into the high points without those changes. Note Spain , LH sent to the back(no changes) in a pole winning car finished 8th 1 point as apposed to 3rd place that SV managed, in a car that was 20 KPH slower in qualli trim.
 

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It shouldn't matter if it's after the race, if SV has done something wrong then a penalty should be levied.

Whilst not being an Alonso fan, it will be great to see if the FIA have the balls to take Vettel's 3rd championship away.
If there wasn't already enough evidence of bad driving the YouTube videos(if genuine) certianly look like he overtook under yellow. Fine? At least 20 seconds, result Alonso champ by 3 points.
Well, it would appear that FIA thinks he hasn't. Where Vettel's onboard camera still (also) showed the yellow warning LED's as he passed Vergne on the straight leading to curve 4, the coverage also shows a Race Marshall waving a green flag on the left, lifting the yellows of the Senna S (serpentine).

Apart from which, as FIA chief commissioner Paul Gutjahr states, the teams have exactly (up to) 30 minutes from the time the provisory results are given at the race end, to lodge any claim. After which it's curtains unless new evidence is presented. Which it was not, seeing how Vettel's maneuver had already been examined while the race was still on.

Saying that the FIA has history of blindness when it comes to German Champions. If it had been a red and silver car I think we all know what would have happened.
I'm not absolving the whole lot from any blindness, no matter towards which nationality. But to single out German champions might merit some further elaboration. I presume, seeing how they don't have all that many, that you're referring to Schumi ???

Who, I'll concede, was a royal prat. :D
 

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why not just rename the OLD thread? ;)

regardless, checking in here now. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Here is the latest on the Vettel controversy:

Formula 1: FIA believes Sebastian Vettel has no case to answer

My views:

I don't care if Alonso is a spoiled prima donna man-child. Most drivers are; it's in their nature. They are told from an early age that they can be the best - indeed, that they are the best. It is also an alpha male thing. They will do anything to be number one, include cheat. Need I present Schumey as a prime example? If you still don't believe it may I give Senna as another example?

I also don't care if Ferrari pushes for Vettel's disqlualification. It is a team's job to do whatever they can to get their prime driver to the top step of the podium. Ferrari did it by popping the seal on Massa's gear box. Other teams have done worse. If the machinations of formula one leaves a sour taste in one's mouth then I suggest one is watching the wrong sport. Wheeling and dealing and back stabbing is as intrinsic to the sport as trash talk is to football.

Should Vettel be disqualified?

Emotional answer: No. Taking away a well deserved championship over a seemingly trivial error, which would not have affected the outcome of the race, would be disruptive to the sport.

Logical answer: That depends upon the careful deliberation of the arbiters. The rules are the rules and to not apply the rules for seeminginly political reasons would diminish F1. Both Vettel and Alonso had numerous chances all season to win - or lose - the championship. In the end Vettel was 3 points richer. So be it.
 

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my take on it is that Ferrari lodged a protest (and totally legal to do so), and the replays showed that the track marshal AND the track signals both had green, and his steering wheel indicator showed yellow. The rules state that the order of relevance is marshal > track > in-car indicator, so I think Vettel will be in the clear.

As well he should be. They won it, fair and square. Maybe Vettel should send Grosjean an xmas card this year. ;)
 

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..............Logical answer: That depends upon the careful deliberation of the arbiters. The rules are the rules and to not apply the rules for seeminginly political reasons would diminish F1. Both Vettel and Alonso had numerous chances all season to win - or lose - the championship. In the end Vettel was 3 points richer. So be it.
my take on it is that Ferrari lodged a protest (and totally legal to do so), and the replays showed that the track marshal AND the track signals both had green, and his steering wheel indicator showed yellow. The rules state that the order of relevance is marshal > track > in-car indicator, so I think Vettel will be in the clear.

As well he should be. They won it, fair and square.
....sums it up for me as well. Fernando pouting and/or Ferrari souring is nothing new inasmuch as it could have been anyone else doing the very same. As has happened.
Maybe Vettel should send Grosjean an xmas card this year. ;)
:D
 

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my take on it is that Ferrari lodged a protest (and totally legal to do so), and the replays showed that the track marshal AND the track signals both had green, and his steering wheel indicator showed yellow. The rules state that the order of relevance is marshal > track > in-car indicator, so I think Vettel will be in the clear.

As well he should be. They won it, fair and square. Maybe Vettel should send Grosjean an xmas card this year. ;)
no, he should send christmas cards to the ferrari designers and engineers:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
One of the F1 reporters added up all the points Vettel and alonso lost due to various instances and it was ~60-40 in favour of Alonso. Conclusion? It doesn't mean squat. You can't recalculate results with a bunch of "ifs".
 

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no, he should send christmas cards to the ferrari designers and engineers:D
point I was trying to make was that if RoGro hadn't taken Alonso out at turn 1 (was that Monza?), Vettel would be the first loser currently. ;)
 

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Yeah, Alonso in MARCA is still griping on about it despite not saying where it was. But (after searching around) it was Spa.

I recall that in Monza Vettel got a drive thru for pushing Alonso onto the grass when the latter tried to pass. Something Alonso had done exactly the same to him a year prior, without getting penalized. But I guess Alonso got pushed further than Vettel had been previously, the car obviously didn't like it much after that.

Well, enough of this, at least for me. The scores are official and I don't want to wind up re-allocating the various wins of history at the drawing board.

We might wind up getting Texas back and we have enough trouble already as things are.:D
 

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.............well, mebbe with a fence around it.;)
 

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personally, I think you have the right idea between putting an ocean between you and it....wise man, kemosabe. :)
 

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I actually enjoyed all my stays in Texas. But the last one was around 20 to 25 years ago, so I might see big changes by now.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Here is the calendar for next year:

01 Australia (Melbourne) 15 - 17 Mar
02 Malaysia (Kuala Lumpur) 22 - 24 Mar
03 China (Shanghai) 12 - 14 Apr
04 Bahrain (Sakhir) 19 - 21 Apr
05 Spain (Catalunya) 10 - 12 May
06 Monaco (Monte Carlo) 24 - 26 May
07 Canada (Montréal) 07 - 09 Jun
08 Great Britain (Silverstone) 28 - 30 Jun
09 Germany (TBA) 12 - 14 Jul
10 Hungary (Budapest) 26 - 28 Jul
11 Belgium (Spa-Francorchamps) 23 - 25 Aug
12 Italy (Monza) 06 - 08 Sep
13 Singapore (Singapore) 20 - 22 Sep
14 Korea (Yeongam) 04 - 06 Oct
15 Japan (Suzuka) 11 - 13 Oct
16 India (New Delhi) 25 - 27 Oct
17 Abu Dhabi (Yas Marina) 01 - 03 Nov
18 United States (Austin) 15 - 17 Nov
19 Brazil (São Paulo) 22 - 24 Nov
Just two notes. The summer break is a week earlier this year and I wish Canada and the US were back to back like they used to be. It was thought that France would get a race back but that idea has been axed for next year.
 

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