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Explain to me Israeli support

9286 Views 297 Replies 30 Participants Last post by  linskyjack
Have read many articles over the past couple of years concerning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and understand the basics of the conflict, I think, but I do not understand why the US Government seems to want to back Israel no matter what they do.
1) If terrorist lives in this home then terrorist is killed and family home destroyed even if home is filled with other family members not involved.
2) Arbitrarily annex territory at whim taking over others lands Palestinians have homesteaded for years and use as Israel pleases.
3) The killing of a wheelchair bound, blind and deaf leader.

I assume there is some history to this backing and wish to know.

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Amongst other things Davey make sure you read just a little about MENAHEM BEGIN's early career, Etzel, and The King David Hotel Jerusalem with its toll of 28 Britons, 41 Arabs, 17 Jews and 5 others.

But unlike today's Palestinian terrorists these were honoured freedom fighters who went on to posts like Prime Minister of Israel. ;)
You might also like to look into the current claims that Israel is sitting on the world's largest oil deposits according to respected Texas oil man, Harold "Hayseed" Stephens.

That puts things into perspective doesn't it? :D
PS: I hope this whole business between Israel and Palestine does not pardon the pun boil down to Oil!!
Ooohhh! :eek: I wish you hadn't said that Davey.

And incidentally, Infidel has been very diplomatic in not pointing out the balls up that we British made in our handling of the situation. We started the first tear which has unravelled to the current mess.
It was blamed on the Palestinians, but was actually done by the Jews, whom couldn't necessarily be called Israeli's yet.
And yes, to answer your question, it is historical fact, the Jews did do this, they even put out statements a year later when the alliance of Jewish extremist groups had fractured admitting it. Here is their statement:

[...] On July 1 - two days after the British raid on the National Institutions and on our towns and villages -we received a letter from the headquarters of the United Resistance, demanding that we carry out an attack on the center of government at the King David Hotel as soon as possible...
Execution of this plan was postponed several times - both for technical reasons and at the request of the United Resistance. It was finally approved on July 22...

Notwithstanding this, days later, Kol Yisrael broadcast a statement - in the name of the United Resistance - abhorring the high death toll at the King David caused by the actions of the 'dissidents'...

We have kept silent for a whole year. We have faced savage incitement, such as this country has never before known. We have withstood the worst possible provocations - and remained silent. We have witnessed evasion, hypocrisy and cowardice - and remained silent.

But today, when the United Resistance has expired and there is no hope that it will ever be revived... there are no longer valid reasons why we should maintain our silence concerning the assault against the center of Nazi-British rule - one of the mightiest attacks ever carried out by a militant underground. Now it is permissible to reveal the truth; now we must reveal the truth. Let the people see - and judge.

July 22, 1947.
Pretty plain I would say. :D
Think Infidel. One minute your running the whole of the Palestine region, the next you find your balls in your hands. Do you think it could be good? :D

No, we made a real dog's breakfast of the political and social situation from more or less the end of WW1. Still, as has been said at length here on many occasions recently, that isn't any excuse to resort to murderous terroist atrocities, it just offers a stronger case in moral and legal argument. :)
Sorry Davey,

I'm no expert on this matter but I recall some details, and others are easy to find. Oldie and Paq will no doubt have more to offer, they were probably there! :p

The United Resistance was the name given to the overall grouping of all of the various dissident Jewish underground factions. As most terrorist organisations now do, there was a legal mouthpiece, the Jewish Agency, which fronted groups like the Haganah and the Irgun and Lehi. The link between them was proven inconclusively when documents were seized in a raid and openly displayed.

The Haganah command settled on three actions against the British and sent word in a letter to Menahin Begin who was I think the head of the Irgun, (the ex-Prime Minister I mentioned), setting the action against the Hotel. Despite giving a 20 minute warning to the French across the road, and it is surmised to the British themselves, (British incompetence possibly raises its head here), this was carried out with the deaths I posted about.

The fear then was of a British backlash, which never really came. But the leaders of the Jewish Agency and most other factions all distanced themselves from the perpetrators and made a public statement to that effect. To their credit Irgun stayed more or less silent for a year, then when the United Resistance broke apart they saw no need to not go public and made their statement.

One humourous side to this is that the British were blown out of the water politically afterwards when it came to light that some idiot Army officer in charge had decided on a policy of banning all British personnel from consorting with any Jewish businesses as he said that "The aim of these orders are to punish the Jews in a way the race dislikes as much as any, namely by striking at their pockets". This was so antisemitic that we lost face and our high moral position petered out somewhat through it.

So the short answer is "We" is the Irgun who committed the offence, the United Resistance is the political grouping of most of the Jewish underground groups to which they were allied. But when have you ever known me to offer the short answer? ;)
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I don't pretend to have a definite answer to that one Davey. It is a welcome relief to find one other American who is openly and actively trying to find out though. :)

I kind of feel that oil is involved in an indirect way in the sense that USA needs a base in the middle east to simply maintain a presence and influence in amongst the oil producers and consequently their customers. I know you are not so dependant upon middle eastern oil nowadays but others are, and influencing the oil consequently influences them.

Knowing a little of how influence is gained over others and can be used or abused I am always aware of the idea of all countries wanting control of things they themselves have no need of simply through their own paranoia or empire building plans. Bargaining positions are built on such things.

Am I paranoid? Not from where I am standing! :D
Consider this, the Torah provides and I'm paraphrasing, that any nation which turns its back on the Jews shall perish. Just thought I'd through that out for consideration.
So are you trying to say the Jews are backstabbers then? ;)
Like I said before, it's because you were there! :p

This is one of the present problems with TSG: no one has much real knowledge of history!
What is worse is that everyone sees that as a virtue!

Also history should have no borders but it is too often seen as geographical.
Another aspect of this problem not touched on yet is the cultural and character divide. While peoples all over the world differ in their character and social makeup, considering the way our territories butt up against each other and the way our commercial lives are intertwined, (to our detriment I feel), the differences between the Western and Arabic peoples are more extreme that any others. Unfortunately the extra allowances which should be made to accomodate this aspect seem to be diminishing rather than growing.

The history laid out here so concisely by you guys is of academic interest to most of us. To the Arab mind it is something that he has inherited, lives with everyday, and still has a responsibility to lay to rest to preserve the dignity of his people and ancestors. Old grievances can never really be forgotten. The veneer put on when they adopt our Western attitudes to deal with us is glued with flour paste and drops off at the first opportunity. We cannot relate to this. I say this from personal experience and in no way to criticise them.

It is an unfortunate fact that the doggedness of the average American with his brashness and loud proclamations of national superiority are a red rag to the bull of that Arab character. You are just oil and matches I am afraid. And while the average Israeli is not of the same mould, having a large proportion of Arabic in him, their attitudes are nowadays leaning towards those of America more than anywhere else from their own close ties with you.

The European has been dealing with the Arab nations for better or worse, right or wrong, for many centuries. We have also been dealing with each other and coping with differing beliefs and attitudes for our whole history. We are somewhere in the middle, with our own peculiarities and weaknesses but more knowledgeable and adaptable in matters like this. You are just coming out of a long period of isolation from involvement the affairs of the rest of the world and have not gained the experience to easily deal with them.

The question now is, who is the more pliable and will bend to accomodate the other's stiffness opening the door to progress?
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