Tech Support Guy banner
1 - 20 of 298 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
11,958 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have read many articles over the past couple of years concerning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and understand the basics of the conflict, I think, but I do not understand why the US Government seems to want to back Israel no matter what they do.
Examples:
1) If terrorist lives in this home then terrorist is killed and family home destroyed even if home is filled with other family members not involved.
2) Arbitrarily annex territory at whim taking over others lands Palestinians have homesteaded for years and use as Israel pleases.
3) The killing of a wheelchair bound, blind and deaf leader.

I assume there is some history to this backing and wish to know.

Dave
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,993 Posts
My my - my friend, this could well become a very heated and inflammatory thread indeed :eek:

Interesting to see where it goes however !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ciao ciao - Oldie

PS - this could well turn into a Brit bashing thread if history is involved :eek:
 

· Registered
Joined
·
11,958 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Oldie
Maybe my really not knowing could get this thread in trouble and if it does then I will close and delete it.
I really would like to know why though.
Anywhere I look I do not see anything written on it. It is like a silent question.

I sincerely hope anyone that posts keeps this question in the innocent context it was asked in and does not turn it to flame.

Dave
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,993 Posts
Originally posted by Davey7549:
Oldie
Maybe my really not knowing could get this thread in trouble and if it does then I will close and delete it.
I really would like to know why though.
Anywhere I look I do not see anything written on it. It is like a silent question.

I sincerely hope anyone that posts keeps this question in the innocent context it was asked in and does not turn it to flame.

Dave
No no no no Dave leave it be - simply edit any word or statement you feel is unacceptable. Nothing gets the message across better believe me ;)

Let the thread run. Hope Paq / RSM / Albert will pop along with the Brit involvement, albeit now posted to the history archives :D

Cheers - Oldie
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,180 Posts
Anywhere I look I do not see anything written on it. It is like a silent question.
Often that's because anyone who asks the question (regardless of the legitimate points they might raise) is immediately accused of being anti-semetic. :eek:

My short answer would be:

1) Very influential/powerful U.S.-based pro-Israeli lobby groups (i.e. - JINSA), that are often highly-connected within the U.S. government.

2) An "allied" nation which serves as (essentially) an extension of the American military. The U.S. taxpayer provides several billion dollars in aid (earmarked for miltary purposes) which Israel uses to purchase weapons and defense systems through American manufacturers and contractors (I tried to talk about this in detail with LANMaster a couple of months ago, but I can't remember which thread it was).

Israel also tends to reverse-engineer much of this American military technology, which they then turn around and sell (helping them to develop their own defense industry). I believe that China and India are two of their biggest clients (although this landed them in some hot water with the U.S. a couple of years ago).

3) Tied in with #2, of course, the relationship is very much one of necessity. Israel's strategic proximity to some of the largest oil reserves in the world make it that much more valuable to the U.S.
In terms of policy, Israel is fairly malleable. Israel is technically a sovereign nation, but only a fool would think that the U.S. doesn't possess a large degree of control over the country.

I think it really comes down to business/money and the security of overseas interests (which is also about business/money).

For all of our talk about human-rights and democracy, the truth is that the almighty dollar was/is/will always be our primary concern.

Where money is concerned, innocent men, women and children stop becoming people, and are instead relegated to the status of "collateral damage".

Sad but true.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,452 Posts
Amongst other things Davey make sure you read just a little about MENAHEM BEGIN's early career, Etzel, and The King David Hotel Jerusalem with its toll of 28 Britons, 41 Arabs, 17 Jews and 5 others.

But unlike today's Palestinian terrorists these were honoured freedom fighters who went on to posts like Prime Minister of Israel. ;)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,452 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
4,993 Posts
Columbo says many truths :eek:

Hi Albert - OK :up:

Davey - This land is mine,
God gave this land to me--
This great and ancient land to me.
And when the morning sun
Reveals the hills and plains
Then I see a land
Where children can run free.

Exodus !!!!!!!

Oldie
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,409 Posts
Davey,
Why must you ask such hard questions? What is it about the Palestinian/ Israeli conflict that interests you so much that you have given us the opportunity to educate you? Sit abck and I'll tel, you why...
First, go back and research what is known as the Balfour letter or the Balfour proclamation, or even the Balfour declaration. It was an agreement with the UK and the cheese-eating surrender monkeys that began to divide up Palestine, which was its own country which was governed bu a bunch of mullahs. The Jews and the Muslims has lived together for quite some time, with occasional fighting, but nothing really major, think N. Ireland before the proclamation. But the Belfour letter began dividing the Palestinian lands to make Israel, so that the Jews would have a homeland. Reference the word "diaspora" and it will make more sense. Anyway, like Oldie stated, the Brits were hanging out in Israel as the Jews and the Muslims started to fight one another, think early peace-keeping force because this way at the beginning of the century. Anyway, the Brits were housing people in a hotel, when it suddenly exploded and killed a bunch of people. It was blamed on the Palestinians, but was actually done by the Jews, whom couldn't necessarily be called Israeli's yet. Long history lesson shortened down, the Jews practiced what we would consider terrorism now, such distinguished Israelis as Menahem Begin, David ben Gurion, Ariel Sharon, and others were memebers of groups that slaughtered Palestinian camps which included women and children, who were trying to flee.
As far as why the US supports Israel, here are some reason why, including what has already been stated and some others:
1. They are Pro-Western and are not a secular government. Much easier to deal and negotitate with someone who doesn't have to consult a Bible, Torah, or Koran.
2. Lots of Israeli's lived in the US first, and have very powerful lobbies in the US, AIPAC, probably being the largest.
3. Stable government.
4. They have money to buy military weapons.
And lastly, guilt.
Israel didn't get a lot of support from the US until after WWII, and we all know what happened there. the US foreign policy is quite clear when it comes to Israel, they recieve more $$ from us than any other country.
I have talked to Shimon Peres, a former President of Israel, and I asked him if Israel could survive without US military and foreign aid. He stated that Israelonly gets 20 million from the us, this was in 1997, which was BS, and he made a point to say that no US soldier has been kiiled in Israel. That is true, but its because we have never had troops to begin with there. And as far as only 20 million, yeah right keep thinking its that low.
We have seen US policy shift recently though. Although we still support Israel, we do admonish them. We support them because the Palestinian leadership is such a hostile, deranged group that has lost control of the people, which is why you have such groups as the Al Aqsa Martyrs brigade, Hezbollah, etc. they used to be all controlled by Arafat, but he has lost credibilty and power, so now groups do what they want. If the Palestinians had better public relations with the US, things might be very different.
As far as why the Israeli's killed a crippled guy? the same reason we'll take Osama out. They both fostered an environment of terror and killing. He is as guilty for inspiring as the people are for detonating.
Just to make a point though, most people are tired of the conflict in Israel,a nd the Palestinians and the Israeli's have never really followed the tenets of Oslo I and II accords.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,993 Posts
There ya go Davey - post 11 :eek: Not entirely factual but a few home truths maybe, except that Oldie didn't actually state anything ;)

You sound a wee bit agitated infidel :D

Off for coffee now - Oldie ;)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,544 Posts
QUOTE: "cheese-eating surrender monkeys"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! :up:
 

· Banned
Joined
·
55,913 Posts
Originally posted by infidel_kast:
1. They are Pro-Western and are not a secular government. Much easier to deal and negotitate with someone who doesn't have to consult a Bible, Torah, or Koran.
2. Lots of Israeli's lived in the US first, and have very powerful lobbies in the US, AIPAC, probably being the largest.
3. Stable government.
4. They have money to buy military weapons.
And lastly, guilt.
:up: Especially the guilt part, IMO.

Most Americans (IMO) believe that homocide/suicide bombings are beyond understanding, but at the same time are increasingly getting sick of the tit-for-tat mentality of BOTH SIDES.

I know that I am.

It will require a full capitulation from both sides to solve this conflict. Yet neither will.

Unfortunately, I believe that this conflict will be at the core of the next major world war. I'm glad that I do not live anywhere near that area of the world. :(
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,409 Posts
Originally posted by oldie:
There ya go Davey - post 11 :eek: Not entirely factual but a few home truths maybe, except that Oldie didn't actually state anything ;)

You sound a wee bit agitated infidel :D

Off for coffee now - Oldie ;)
No, not really agitated, just studied Middle Eastern politics in college with a great professor who was from Palestine, but was greek orthodox, so I respected his opinion because it wasn't based on religion, not that I woulnd't respect his beliefs if he was Muslim, I just found that particular fact unique. He was also blind. Heres his link to his VC, there are a lot of articles that you can use to get more information. http://www.psci.unt.edu/Sahliyeh/sahliyeh.htm

Just out of curiosity Oldie, simply because I want Davey to be informed on both sides viewpoints, was the fact that I presumed you stated something when you didn't the only factual error, or was there something else? just curious.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,993 Posts
Originally posted by infidel_kast:

Just out of curiosity Oldie, simply because I want Davey to be informed on both sides viewpoints, was the fact that I presumed you stated something when you didn't the only factual error, or was there something else? just curious.
Like your debating style infidel. Factual error!!! mmm lets see. Not really, but much is still under wraps and archived away in the deeper recesses of Century House, London. Where it will remain as classified for a few more years yet!!!

Needless to say Britain has made many mistakes in it's recent history. Not least in Palestine (as it was ) during the Exodus :eek:

Nuff for now - do not wish to hog the thread

Regards - Oldie
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,409 Posts
Originally posted by oldie:
Like your debating style infidel. Factual error!!! mmm lets see. Not really, but much is still under wraps and archived away in the deeper recesses of Century House, London. Where it will remain as classified for a few more years yet!!!

Needless to say Britain has made many mistakes in it's recent history. Not least in Palestine (as it was ) during the Exodus :eek:
Regards - Oldie
I really don't blame the Brits for this at all. Israel and the Palestinians have had more than enough time to resolve this conflict, and I think they fight just out of spite and habit.
As far as classified material, I work with what I've got, but I'd be more than interested in reading about the parts I don't have, information is the only thing that could sway an opinion, and in this case, I am ambivalent.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,993 Posts
Much more but???

During World War I the Zionist movement and the Jewish community in Eretz-Israel firmly supported the Allied Powers, even fighting under the British Army in the Jewish Legion (39th and 42 nd Battalions, Royal Fusiliers, with the 38th Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers also sometimes called the Palestinian Brigade). On November 2, 1917, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, stating that "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people…." In 1922 the League of Nations created the Mandate for Palestine, under which Great Britain was to facilitate the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

Regards - Oldie
 

· Registered
Joined
·
11,958 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
DN
Read through your post you linked and "Oh my Gosh!!!!!"
I definitely will get the book "The Fateful Triangle" and read it.

Columbo
Thanks for the abbreviated version of your thought on the subject. The frightful part I conclude from your listing is the Oil connection.

Albert
I will do some research into that incident thank you.
Also see another reference to Oil.

PS: I hope this whole business between Israel and Palestine does not pardon the pun boil down to Oil!!

Infidel kast
Wow I see you have spent a great deal of time studying this subject. thank you very much for the incite. The Balfour letter will certainly get read. Diaspora = "The dispersion of Jews outside of Israel from the sixth century B.C., when they were exiled to Babylonia, until the present time."
Is this historical truth or speculation - "It was blamed on the Palestinians, but was actually done by the Jews."
Also why would the US feel guilty toward the Jewish people?

Thanks Oldie! I see this conflict is moving backward in time to the referenced Balfour Document which I see is a must read.

Dave

PS: Thanks Guys........ Keep the info coming I really appreciate it.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,452 Posts
PS: I hope this whole business between Israel and Palestine does not pardon the pun boil down to Oil!!
Ooohhh! :eek: I wish you hadn't said that Davey.

And incidentally, Infidel has been very diplomatic in not pointing out the balls up that we British made in our handling of the situation. We started the first tear which has unravelled to the current mess.
It was blamed on the Palestinians, but was actually done by the Jews, whom couldn't necessarily be called Israeli's yet.
And yes, to answer your question, it is historical fact, the Jews did do this, they even put out statements a year later when the alliance of Jewish extremist groups had fractured admitting it. Here is their statement:
THE TRUTH ABOUT THE KING DAVID HOTEL

[...] On July 1 - two days after the British raid on the National Institutions and on our towns and villages -we received a letter from the headquarters of the United Resistance, demanding that we carry out an attack on the center of government at the King David Hotel as soon as possible...
Execution of this plan was postponed several times - both for technical reasons and at the request of the United Resistance. It was finally approved on July 22...

Notwithstanding this, days later, Kol Yisrael broadcast a statement - in the name of the United Resistance - abhorring the high death toll at the King David caused by the actions of the 'dissidents'...

We have kept silent for a whole year. We have faced savage incitement, such as this country has never before known. We have withstood the worst possible provocations - and remained silent. We have witnessed evasion, hypocrisy and cowardice - and remained silent.

But today, when the United Resistance has expired and there is no hope that it will ever be revived... there are no longer valid reasons why we should maintain our silence concerning the assault against the center of Nazi-British rule - one of the mightiest attacks ever carried out by a militant underground. Now it is permissible to reveal the truth; now we must reveal the truth. Let the people see - and judge.

July 22, 1947.
Pretty plain I would say. :D
 
1 - 20 of 298 Posts
Top