Do you support the death penalty

valley said:

You said it, not me!!!! I didnt dare!

so if they choose prison...doesnt this only perpetuate more crime?

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How?

I don't support the death penalty (my only liberal position....hey everyone has a weak point).

Many reasons are given to validate or justify it but, imo, there is really only one semi-valid reason. The death penalty provides a measure of justice and revenge to the injured family in a manner that is less destructive to society then a war of retribution. A state sanction and imposed form of retribution is really what it is.

Mulder said:

How?

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well you said that pedophiles dont do well in prison..I asusmed you mean they are attacked by other prisoners. I'm just wondering it you feel its ok to victimize a pedophile just to get even for their crime.

Personally I believe in justice, but not revenge. I think the death penalty is the best way to get justice (for extreme crimes) but terrorizing a human being for their crime is revenge.

Do you get what I am trying to say here?

valley said:

well you said that pedophiles dont do well in prison..I asusmed you mean they are attacked by other prisoners. I'm just wondering it you feel its ok to victimize a pedophile just to get even for their crime.

Personally I believe in justice, but not revenge. I think the death penalty is justice but terrorizing a human being for their crime is revenge.

Do you get what I am trying to say here?

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So you are saying that it is better to kill them? Again, my point in response to your point was it is better to let them decide if they'd rather be butt-raped by Bubba or put to death by lethal injection. I honestly can't see the validity of the argument, "Well, Mr. pedophile--we don't want you suffering in prison, so we will put you to death to save you all that trauma!" I am not saying that I want them to be in prison because that's worse. The problem is the death penalty is too arbitrary and expensive, and it is not reversible if an error is made. Given the ultimate finality of that type of punishment, it has to be perfect and it never will.

That brought up an interesting dilemma in my mind valley. Suppose a guy kills someone and is sentenced to death and while awaiting his execution, he is "saved" by Jesus and totally repents. He will be put to death by society, yet saved by God. How does that make any sense?

Mulder said:

That brought up an interesting dilemma in my mind valley. Suppose a guy kills someone and is sentenced to death and while awaiting his execution, he is "saved" by Jesus and totally repents. He will be put to death by society, yet saved by God. How does that make any sense?

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From a Christian standpoint that makes perfect sense but far be it from me to step on Valley's toes, I'll let her explain.

gbrumb said:

From a Christian standpoint that makes perfect sense but far be it from me to step on Valley's toes, I'll let her explain.

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Well, I'm not sure that makes sense for all Christians. Many are oppossed to capital punishment on moral grounds that being that only God can decide who gets to live and die as that being the ulitmate worldy punishment. But we will await the ultimate Christian's response!

Mulder said:

Suppose a guy kills someone and is sentenced to death and while awaiting his execution, he is "saved" by Jesus and totally repents. He will be put to death by society, yet saved by God. How does that make any sense?

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Consider like the thief on the cross and you'll have your answer.

valley said:

Consider like the thief on the cross and you'll have your answer.

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Like I said--how does that make any sense?

valley said:

Consider like the thief on the cross and you'll have your answer.

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Geeeezzzzz, not only does she act like our mother but now she's talking in parables!

Supreme Court: Sentencing Guidelines Advisory, Not Mandatory
In a splintered and complex decision that may throw federal criminal cases into short-term chaos, the Supreme Court on Wednesday took the bite out of the federal sentencing guidelines and may have handed back to federal judges the discretion in sentencing they lost 20 years ago after the guidelines were enacted. Commentators said Wednesday that the decision "literally revolutionized federal sentencing law" and gave judges "the greatest sentencing power they've ever had in the history of the republic."
Read full text


Law.com

Mulder said:

Like I said--how does that make any sense?

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oh come on you guys! The thief had been sentenced to death for his crime. He repented and was forgiven. He went to heaven.

Mulder! You understand the concept of justice so why dont you understand this? You also believe that everyone will go to heaven so what part of going to heaven after his death do you not understand?

And I am not opposed to the death penalty based on "moral grounds" because God ordained government to carry out justice so it is a fitting punishment because it is God-ordained.

valley said:

And I am not opposed to the death penalty based on "moral grounds" because God ordained government to carry out justice so it is a fitting punishment because it is God-ordained.

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By that logic any government decreed punishment would by God ordained.

Would Jesus support the death penalty?

What if the state gets the wrong guy----?????????

dugq said:

Would Jesus support the death penalty?

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Jesus taught about Hell several times. Being the ultimate judge, who actually sends unrepentant people to hell, I would imagine He supported the death penalty.

Yeah good point, its not like Jesus taught forgiveness, love and compassion now is it.

I think you and I have a very different view of Jesus

dugq said:

Yeah good point, its not like Jesus taught forgiveness, love and compassion now is it.

I think you and I have a very different view of Jesus

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I dont understand

The thief had been sentenced to death for his crime. He repented and was forgiven. He went to heaven.

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you didnt get that it was Jesus that forgave him? And the whole point was to show that anyone can be forgiven by the Lord. You think I am here because I want people to go to hell?

But Jesus is just, too. You cannot deny that He preached about Hell. Dont make the mistake of being so lopsided in your views about Who He is and what He taught that you leave that part of His teaching out.

To step into your theology for a moment, Christ is perfect, whatever judgements he makes are based on truth and are flawless, can you say the same for human judegement?

I only brought up His sense of justice because you asked me a direct question.

dugq said:

To step into your theology for a moment, Christ is perfect, whatever judgements he makes are based on truth and are flawless, can you say the same for human judegement?

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no, I cannot.

But God ordains government and commands us to submit to those who lead us, unless they violate God's holy law. Then we have a duty to engage in civil disobedience. But government is ordained by God and it is supposed to be fair and just. If it follows Biblical principles, it would be a just government. But we all know thats not the case for the most part.

I'll be the first to say that our justice system and our government is but a shell of what it could be.

Hey Valley--what about false convictions and the death of innocent people---????????