[AlbertB]

Newsflash just reported on TV states that a major chemical attack on a transport network hub in London has just been foiled! No details were given but either I, or I'm sure any other Brit on the board, will post more as soon as it becomes available.

 

[pyritechips]

From ITV:

'Terror gas attack foiled' claim

12.47PM, Tue Apr 6 2004

Police in London have foiled a poison gas attack in the UK, it has been claimed.

An American news channel has reported that Scotland Yard discovered the plot to use a highly toxic chemical on the London Underground, at Gatwick Airport or a busy shopping centre.

They were apparently tipped off by operators at GCHQ, the Government's eavesdropping centre which can listen in on phone calls and read e-mails.

The poison was named as osmium tetroxide, which is mainly used in laboratories for research. It irritates the eyes, throat and lungs and can blind and even kill by 'drowning' the victim.

Osmium tetroxide, along with many other potentially harmful materials, can be bought over the internet without checks - although the issue is likely to lead for calls for tighter restrictions on the trade in industrial chemicals.

 

[AlbertB]

Strange news this one, not nearly so bad as they made it sound.

The authorities caught the threat at a very early stage. No chemical had even been purchased, only methods and details had been discussed. The conversation listened in to was between a man in Britain and one in Pakistan.

Osmium tetroxide is 4 times as expensive as gold and not nearly so dangerous as many other more easily obtainable chemicals! Makes me wonder if we aren't just having our rifles counted here.

 

[pyritechips]

A case of over-reaction, maybe?

Just another case of anything that can be related in any way, no matter how slightly, with "terrorism" gets screamed across the headlines?

 

[RSM123]

One being charged :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3605647.stm

 

[Izme]

Good Job Brits!

thanks

 

[RSM123]

Racist remark removed. Let's try to have debates without going to extreme, ok ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3612737.stm

Must use the correct terminology when talking about brave moslems who want to attack civilians with chemical weapons - because they haven't got a map that will help them find their way to Iraq.

 

[LANMaster]

We all know that Arabs don't have WMD's. I expect the charges will be dropped.

 

[~Candy~]

RSM123, I've edited your post, please refrain from the racist attacks, etc.

 

[RSM123]

ACACandy,

I apologise.

Chemical attacks on the London Underground which I use roughly 18 times a day are somewhat close to home for me.

Though you are quite correct.


All the best to you,


Richard.

 

[~Candy~]

No problem RSM, I hear you. It's easy to get very very defensive in these debates. Thanks for understanding

 

[RSM123]

ACACandy,

I have to be quite candid and say that I was fully aware of what I posted. I was intentionally expressing contempt for the people involved. It is an emotive issue certainly ... but I don't intend to make your time here any more difficuit than it is already.

I won't do it again.

You don't need to thank me for understanding - its your forum not mine.

I normally confine such replies to Yahoo Messageboards



Happy Easter.

Rich.

 

[plschwartz]

RMS:
You may be combining two stories.
One concerned the use of osmium tetraoxide
see albert below. Osmium currently is the same price as gold
for its health effects see http://www.gr.nl/pdf.php?ID=562
The seem to be of the irritant rather then lethal nature.
-hardly the weapon of choice for terror when it is easy say to make chlorine gas of wwI fame from swimming pool chemicals.

Second is the use of ammonium nitrate which is a common agricultral chemical. Mixed with diesel fuel it can be used as an explosive (ala WTC I) but not really a chemical weapon

 

[RSM123]

PLSchwartz,

They seem to be part of the same outfit here.

One is claiming that British Intelligence actually paid for him to visit Karachi to infiltrate the group - I can certainly credit MI5 with such duplicity ... we will have to see.

 

[oldie]

Should this affair have remained out of the public domain?

GCHQ and Century House must be nearing the end of their tether

And those working under cover in the field

Now the evil doers dispense with their mobile telecoms, and find other, more secure, means of communication - yes? - no?

Oldie

 

[rextilleon]

God Schwartz--thats the way you infiltrate terrorist groups! LOL--now naive.

PS. Schwartz---your moral indignation aside, spying is a very dirty business--!

 

[RSM123]

Oldie,

I believe that disclosure here was politically motivated for two reasons :

1) Look we're winning against those that would launch such an attack here.

2) Cover your a** - if it was not officially disclosed yet details were subsequently leaked, the public at large might draw incorrect conclusions as to the actual preparedeness for this attack ie that it was literally on the verge of implementation, rather than still at the planning stage. Blair would have possibly faced an intense backlash from elements of the electorate who perceived themselves as being in the firing line. It was quite widely reported that Blair's personal security was beefed up last year - and he apparently now has a limousine that is 'NBC' as well as bullet / bomb proof.

Furthermore only a fool would think that no provisions had been made to house - or if need be, evacuate Blair and his cronies were it to become necessary. Therefore there would likely be considerable hostility to what may be viewed as an "I'm alright Jack" philosophy.

Remember that as the incumbent, Blair will likely be blamed for any such attack (even had we not gone into Iraq) simply because he would be seen as someone who 'should have known'. People always need someone to blame ..particularly in the 'counselling / compensation' culture which has evolved here.

Blair seems to be trying to playing both sides - he gives the outward impression of supporting 'multiculturalism' ... yet it only takes a Daily Mail headline causing ructions in Middle England, and he's introducing ID Cards to placate them.

His relentless ambition to remain in power is likely to trip him up - I just hope he doesn't drag us down with him.


Happy Easter.


Richard.

 

[oldie]

RSM - of course it's politically motivated.

And there will be many jumping up and down wondering whether or not all the covert work is a sheer waste of time

No wonder MI5 are stretched

APPLY HERE

Oldie

 

[Trooper_fan]

Newsflash just reported on TV states that a major chemical attack on a transport network hub in London has just been foiled! No details were given but either I, or I'm sure any other Brit on the board, will post more as soon as it becomes available.

I'm terribly cynical about these kind of things at the moment as it seems there's a new threat foiled or bomb going off everytime Bush or Blair come under sustained fire (no pun intended) about the war. :down:

 

[RSM123]

Oldie,

I'm aware you were referring to political influence behind the disclosure.

However MI5/6 though supposedly the intelligence agencies for the nation, are by virture of the political system, nothing more than branches of the government, regardless of which party happens to be in power at any given time.

It is inevitable when you have someone as ambitious as Blair undoubtedly is, that '5' will be used as an instrument of the Labour Party and will do its bidding without question. If what I read elsewhere is true, they acted similarly against the NUM and CND on behalf of Mrs Thatcher (rightly in my view.)

As to whether its worthwhile - I'm sure that they got as much out of this 'terror cell' as they could. Clearly there is equal focus on moslems abroad from their sister service - yet not much if anything is, or will be disclosed about that aspect of this operation. Indeed it would be interesting to know how they got on to this group in the first place. It was reported that Menwith Hill picked up phone calls to people in the Mid East / Pakistan - though surely that can only be conjecture.

Should there be another attempt by a similar group, I am sure that successful interception will be equally widely trumpeted. When you allow the intelligence community or military to become politicised that is one inevitable consequence. Another, it could be argued would be the deployment of troops in a conflict with fudged objectives, unclear rules of engagement, and no apparent exit strategy.