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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Texas Governor Mobilizes Evangelicals

By MATT CURRY, Associated Press Writer Sun Jun 12, 2:23 PM ET

DALLAS - Even for Texas, the scene was remarkable: The governor, flanked by an out-of-state televangelist and religious right leaders, signing legislation in a church school gymnasium amid shouts of "amen" from backers who just as well could have been attending a revival.
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It wasn't just the blatant blend of church and state that made the gathering in Fort Worth unusual. Advance publicity also attracted about 300 angry protesters — unheard of for the routine business of ceremonial bill signings.

Now some wonder whether Gov. Rick Perry overplayed his hand last week trying to stick to the playbook used by old friend George W. Bush and political whiz Karl Rove, mobilizing evangelicals for last year's presidential race.

"Governor Perry and his people are just not as good as Bush and Rove," Southern Methodist University political scientist Cal Jillson said. "Governor Perry knows the steps, but he's got no rhythm."

Perry's faith-based appeal came as he awaited possible Republican Party primary challenges from U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (news, bio, voting record) and Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn in 2006. But Jillson said the ex-Democrat risks alienating moderate Republicans turned off by an in-your-face approach to political issues with religious themes.

It's a gamble the governor seems willing to take. Last month, he spoke to about 500 pastors in Austin at a meeting of the Texas Restoration Project, which plans to register 300,000 new "values voters" in Texas and elect candidates who reflect their conservative views.

In the private meeting, Perry championed promotion of spiritual values on the public square.

"One of the great myths of our time is that you can't legislate morality," the governor told the ministers, according to a transcript provided to The Associated Press by his campaign.

"If you can't legislate morality, then you can neither lock criminals up nor let them go free. If you can't legislate morality, you can neither recognize gay marriage nor prohibit it. If you can't legislate morality, you can neither allow for prayer in school nor prevent it," he said. "It is a ridiculous notion to say you can't legislate morality. I say you can't NOT legislate morality."

Perry, a United Methodist, did not refer to the death penalty, which his denomination says devalues life and should be eliminated from criminal codes. The governor, a capital punishment proponent, presides over the nation's most active death penalty state.

Perry's pastor, the Rev. James Mayfield of Tarrytown United Methodist Church in Austin, did not respond to e-mail or phone messages from the AP seeking comment.

Perry grew up attending both the Baptist and Methodist churches in the tiny Paint Creek community in West Texas, spokeswoman Kathy Walt said. His religious beliefs are guided by several factors, including his understanding of scripture and conversations with "faith leaders."

"His walk of faith is a lifelong journey of a sinner who has accepted the grace of God," she said.

Ohio televangelist Rod Parsley and Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council in Washington were among the religious conservatives who shared the stage with Perry at the Fort Worth bill signing. Parsley linked homosexuality and disease rates, and about 1,000 supporters cheered attacks on "activist judges" and the media.

Objections to Perry using a church school as a backdrop to a bill signing preceded his visit, with critics mostly focusing on separation of church and state.

"This is one of the most outrageous misuses of a house of worship for political gain that I've ever seen," said Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Washington, D.C.-based Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

Perry shrugged off the complaints.

"We could have signed it in a lot of different locations," Perry said on Fox News. "We could have signed it in a Wal-Mart parking lot, and those who are against people of faith being involved in the electoral process would still have been very much against this bill."

Perry actually signed two measures. One will impose more limits on late-term abortions and require minor girls to get written parental consent. The other would ban same-sex marriage, but voters must approve the constitutional amendment in November.

Perkins said he sees nothing wrong with signing legislation at a Christian school, and he pointed to a consistent theme of the bill-signing: Forces are at work to exclude the religious-minded from political and civic debate.

"People of faith are not backing up, we are not giving up, we are here to stay," he said.

Luis Saenz, Perry's campaign spokesman, said Perry is not the first governor to sign a bill in a religious setting.

Political consultant Marc Campos, who was an aide to former Democratic Gov. Mark White, confirmed White signed a bill in 1984 extending workers compensation benefits to farm workers on the front steps of a Catholic shrine where Mass was held regularly.

He wrote on his Web site that he didn't recall "getting cracked on for holding a bill signing ceremony at a religious institution."
 

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linskyjack said:
Texas Governor Mobilizes Evangelicals

By MATT CURRY, Associated Press Writer Sun Jun 12, 2:23 PM ET

DALLAS - Even for Texas, the scene was remarkable: The governor, flanked by an out-of-state televangelist and religious right leaders, signing legislation in a church school gymnasium amid shouts of "amen" from backers who just as well could have been attending a revival.
ADVERTISEMENT

It wasn't just the blatant blend of church and state that made the gathering in Fort Worth unusual. Advance publicity also attracted about 300 angry protesters — unheard of for the routine business of ceremonial bill signings.

Now some wonder whether Gov. Rick Perry overplayed his hand last week trying to stick to the playbook used by old friend George W. Bush and political whiz Karl Rove, mobilizing evangelicals for last year's presidential race.

"Governor Perry and his people are just not as good as Bush and Rove," Southern Methodist University political scientist Cal Jillson said. "Governor Perry knows the steps, but he's got no rhythm."

Perry's faith-based appeal came as he awaited possible Republican Party primary challenges from U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (news, bio, voting record) and Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn in 2006. But Jillson said the ex-Democrat risks alienating moderate Republicans turned off by an in-your-face approach to political issues with religious themes.

It's a gamble the governor seems willing to take. Last month, he spoke to about 500 pastors in Austin at a meeting of the Texas Restoration Project, which plans to register 300,000 new "values voters" in Texas and elect candidates who reflect their conservative views.

In the private meeting, Perry championed promotion of spiritual values on the public square.

"One of the great myths of our time is that you can't legislate morality," the governor told the ministers, according to a transcript provided to The Associated Press by his campaign.

"If you can't legislate morality, then you can neither lock criminals up nor let them go free. If you can't legislate morality, you can neither recognize gay marriage nor prohibit it. If you can't legislate morality, you can neither allow for prayer in school nor prevent it," he said. "It is a ridiculous notion to say you can't legislate morality. I say you can't NOT legislate morality."

Perry, a United Methodist, did not refer to the death penalty, which his denomination says devalues life and should be eliminated from criminal codes. The governor, a capital punishment proponent, presides over the nation's most active death penalty state.

Perry's pastor, the Rev. James Mayfield of Tarrytown United Methodist Church in Austin, did not respond to e-mail or phone messages from the AP seeking comment.

Perry grew up attending both the Baptist and Methodist churches in the tiny Paint Creek community in West Texas, spokeswoman Kathy Walt said. His religious beliefs are guided by several factors, including his understanding of scripture and conversations with "faith leaders."

"His walk of faith is a lifelong journey of a sinner who has accepted the grace of God," she said.

Ohio televangelist Rod Parsley and Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council in Washington were among the religious conservatives who shared the stage with Perry at the Fort Worth bill signing. Parsley linked homosexuality and disease rates, and about 1,000 supporters cheered attacks on "activist judges" and the media.

Objections to Perry using a church school as a backdrop to a bill signing preceded his visit, with critics mostly focusing on separation of church and state.

"This is one of the most outrageous misuses of a house of worship for political gain that I've ever seen," said Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Washington, D.C.-based Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

Perry shrugged off the complaints.

"We could have signed it in a lot of different locations," Perry said on Fox News. "We could have signed it in a Wal-Mart parking lot, and those who are against people of faith being involved in the electoral process would still have been very much against this bill."

Perry actually signed two measures. One will impose more limits on late-term abortions and require minor girls to get written parental consent. The other would ban same-sex marriage, but voters must approve the constitutional amendment in November.

Perkins said he sees nothing wrong with signing legislation at a Christian school, and he pointed to a consistent theme of the bill-signing: Forces are at work to exclude the religious-minded from political and civic debate.

"People of faith are not backing up, we are not giving up, we are here to stay," he said.

Luis Saenz, Perry's campaign spokesman, said Perry is not the first governor to sign a bill in a religious setting.

Political consultant Marc Campos, who was an aide to former Democratic Gov. Mark White, confirmed White signed a bill in 1984 extending workers compensation benefits to farm workers on the front steps of a Catholic shrine where Mass was held regularly.

He wrote on his Web site that he didn't recall "getting cracked on for holding a bill signing ceremony at a religious institution."
what has this world come to?
 

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I find it interesting...the blind eye some turn to the mixture of political/religious encounters. It does follow a pattern of:
:::When Republicans do it = bad:::
yet
:::When Democrats do it = good:::

Sorry, but I can't take indignation seriously when there patently exists such a double standard.
 

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Yes...dismiss as usual. And what makes you think I haven't?
 

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linskyjack said:
Yeah, Democrats are very much involved with the evangelical right! Read the damn article.
I think the point was...there are religious folk on the left too...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes, there are religious folk on the left--but normally they dont call homosexuals perverts, they are for a woman's right to choose, they don't rail against the judiciary because it isn't religious enough. Okay, Mr. Ciberblade, give us one recent example of a Democrat subscribing to this kind of bizzare world view--and don't tell me Zel Miller--he isn't a democrat, he is a martian.
 

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linsky, there's a reason in statistics they use IQR to calculate the spread of values, as the extremes in any set skew the norm.

...you're failing to do so...
 

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Ciberblade said:
I find it interesting...the blind eye some turn to the mixture of political/religious encounters. It does follow a pattern of:
:::When Republicans do it = bad:::
yet
:::When Democrats do it = good:::

Sorry, but I can't take indignation seriously when there patently exists such a double standard.
Do you have an example of what you speak?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Of course he has no examples---thats his typical way of arguing. Gibbel. you need to hone in here- -concentrate on what people do and what they say. Again, lets have some concrete examples that support Ciberblades bizzare claims.
 

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bassetman said:
Bopper, are you getting your quotes from other thread :confused:
not intentionally... what other thread?
 

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bassetman said:
Do you have an example of what you speak?
How many would you like? Lets start with a subject we all participated heavily in. We can go back to the election when John Kerry did some fund raising by reciting scripture at a church to the delight of his fans (covered so well on CNN) ;) We could then compare that to the fund raising dinner Bush hosted and invited church leaders. What makes the two different is that Bush's dinner drew cries of church & state, even though there were no religious references -- while Kerry received no such criticism, even though there was religious references.
linskyjack said:
Of course he has no examples---thats his typical way of arguing. Gibbel. you need to hone in here- -concentrate on what people do and what they say. Again, lets have some concrete examples that support Ciberblades bizzare claims.
You keep saying this. What's funny, is you are the one who quotes unknown sources...and then accuse me of trying to change the subject when I gather the truth from the source. :rolleyes:
And what bizzare claim have I made? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ciberblade said:
I find it interesting...the blind eye some turn to the mixture of political/religious encounters. It does follow a pattern of:
:::When Republicans do it = bad:::
yet
:::When Democrats do it = good:::

Sorry, but I can't take indignation seriously when there patently exists such a double standard.
Okay, now that we have dispensed with that--could you please give us concrete examples of the Democrats making religious/political claims.
 

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linskyjack said:
Okay, now that we have dispensed with that--could you please give us concrete examples of the Democrats making religious/political claims.
See above.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
ciberblade said:
How many would you like? Lets start with a subject we all participated heavily in. We can go back to the election when John Kerry did some fund raising by reciting scripture at a church to the delight of his fans (covered so well on CNN) We could then compare that to the fund raising dinner Bush hosted and invited church leaders. What makes the two different is that Bush's dinner drew cries of church & state, even though there were no religious references -- while Kerry received no such criticism, even though there was religious references.
Please, every candidate in the American electoral history goes to the churches and does some scripture. Thats a far cry from attacking gays, attacking judges, attacking a woman's right to chose. If you are going to sit there and tell us that the repressive and vicious rhetoric that comes out of the mouths of those right wing politicians who are seeking the blessing of the fundamentalist church is equal to a candidate quoting scripture in a campaign---then you are so far out there that only a rescue mission could save you.
 

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linskyjack said:
Please, every candidate in the American electoral history goes to the churches and does some scripture. Thats a far cry from attacking gays, attacking judges, attacking a woman's right to chose. If you are going to sit there and tell us that the repressive and vicious rhetoric that comes out of the mouths of those right wing politicians who are seeking the blessing of the fundamentalist church is equal to a candidate quoting scripture in a campaign---then you are so far out there that only a rescue mission could save you.
Did I say that? No.

I said that there is a double standard when it comes to politicians mixing politics with religion.
 
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