[Izme]

The Genocide of 800,000 Tutsi's in Rwanda in 1993
April 7th; Rwandans were awoken to the sound of a loud explosion, someone had shot down the leader of the Hutu's plane. The genocide had begun. Speculation that the Hutu's had shot down their own plane as an excuse to start the genocide rang loudly.
by Hutu extremist's were one of the worst groups in human history,
within the first 2 weeks 100,000 Tutsi's had been killed by the Hutu's. The US having just went through the hell of somalia with the Death of 13 marines, walked away from the Genocide and basically turned it's back on all of those people. America was not only at fault, several countries and the U.N. security council Were involved also. Madeline Allbright choses to have 90% of the peace keeping force to leave immedietely. the primary force of Belgians had left also. 4 days after the genocide, there was enough of a force in Rwanda to stem alot of the killings. Instead their purpose was to remove all Foreigners. They left the Tutsi's to their own demise. Tutsi's were completely devoid of any help from us.
To the Tutsi's this was not understood why they were left to Die. They wondered when the cavalry would arrive over the hill but it never did. The whole world sat back and watched the genocide of 800,000 Tutsi's in a small amount of time. I feel that their blood is on the US also
America had no interest in Rwanda, nor did most nations
This is the big shame. Another Extremist group was using genocide to meet their goals. I remember feeling saddend and dismayed at the lack of help to these people.
and thinking that these totally uneducated and archaic peoples were not even aware of their own evil
The term non intervention rang loudly and the feilds ran red with blood. Was a lesson learned? Will stuff like this happen again?
was this true evil or ?
The lack of humanity displayed in Rwanda is a wake up call for all of us I feel.
May this always be a black mark on our history
these hutu's became non human, just killing machines
They were somewhat primitive to begin with.

My hearts and prayers are with all of the victim's of any kind of Extremism

How long must we endure this before we realize this is all insanity?
after the holocaust the genocide of human's was not accepted, and agreed on by the U.N. to never happen again. All they had to do is avoid the term genocide and turn their backs on Rwanda.
But as bodies flowed down the rivers in Rwanda we chose to not use force or intervine. This is atrocious to say the least. Logistics and beurocracy was worth more than the lives of Rwandans
Bill Clinton made the statement that it was not in the U.S.
interest to help them. I did not agree with that what so ever. And watched in horror as our own government repeatedly avoided the term genocide. this is very shamefull indeed.

This was a dark time in the world, a time that continues to this day. There is such a potential for good but such a potential for evil. Streets filled with machete weilding muderers is like hell on Earth. Now as I look back on this my main 2 questions are WHY did we not help? Why did beurocracy reign supreme over the lives of 800,000 people? This was Genocide damn it! Bill Clinton went to RWanda and admitted that we made mistakes but what stuck in my head is that he never appologized for having the ability to stop this but instead chose to walk away.
All of humanity had failed!
Sad indeed for all humanity

100 days of hell on earth for what?
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[pyritechips]

Hello fishy:

I tried to give a damn but you are right. Nobody will get involved unless there's something in it for them. I tried to expose possible conflict between Egypt and Ethiopia and this was one response: "I think Etheopia would cull their population a bit if they went to war with Egypt. Problem solved."

In other words, "let them get slaughtered". don't waste your time fishy old buddy: If you care about people you are "thin skinned" and "overly sensitive".

 

[Izme]

Hi Jim
I was and am deeply disheartened by all of this, I have even talked with Rwandan's since this. They still do not understand why this all happened, shaking their heads in disgust.

The ghost's of Rwanda are in my mind and always will be.
This was a dark time for all of humanity and will continue to be an evil planet filled with misguided extremist's hell bent on the genocide of all of us. If we ever turn our backs again what does that say?

Is human life worth nothing now?

I shudder to think this true

:down:

 

[Izme]

Originally posted by pyritechips:
don't waste your time fishy old buddy: If you care about people you are "thin skinned" and "overly sensitive".

To hell with that notion and the one's that have no compassion for humans and they're strife ect.
call me what ever you want, I say
If my humanity is stronger in my heart, than let that be my truth,
and may I sleep better knowing that I care.

 

[pyritechips]

Amen to that! :up:

 

[Chris A]

More than 100 women have been raped in a single attack carried out by Arab militias in Darfur in western Sudan.
Speaking to the BBC, the United Nations co-ordinator for Sudan, Mukesh Kapila, said the conflict had created the worst humanitarian situation in the world.

He said more than one million people were being affected by ethnic cleansing.

He said the fighting was characterised by a scorched-earth policy and was comparable in character, if not in scale, to the 1994 Rwandan genocide.

"It is more than just a conflict. It is an organised attempt to do away with a group of people," he said.

Arab militias, backed by the government, have driven hundreds of thousands from their homes, in retaliation for a rebellion launched a year ago by two armed groups.

They accused the Arab-dominated government of ignoring the black African inhabitants of Darfur.

More than 100,000 people have fled across the border into Chad, but have continued to face cross-border raids.

Attack

Mr Kapila said 75 people were killed in the attack on the village of Tawila at sunrise by Arab militiamen two weeks ago.

Q&A: Darfur conflict
"All houses as well as a market and a health centre were completely looted and the market burnt. Over 100 women were raped, six in front of their fathers who were later killed," he said.

A further 150 women and 200 children were abducted.

This attack a fortnight ago is one of many across the arid territory.

Village after village is being razed to the ground by the militias, he said.

To compound the problem, aid agencies can only reach small parts of Darfur and are subject to attacks.

Mr Kapila called for more aid and for urgent international intervention to bring about a ceasefire in the war.

Shock

"I was present in Rwanda at the time of the genocide, and I've seen many other situations around the world and I am totally shocked at what is going on in Darfur," he told the BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"This is ethnic cleansing, this is the world's greatest humanitarian crisis, and I don't know why the world isn't doing more about it."

The fighting in the west of Sudan has intensified as government peace talks to resolve the 20-year war with southern rebels are nearing an end.

But the UN is concerned that this conflict could undermine the peace talks in Kenya.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3549325.stm

 

[oldie]

Originally posted by izme:
To hell with that notion and the one's that have no compassion for humans and they're strife ect.
call me what ever you want, I say
If my humanity is stronger in my heart, than let that be my truth,
and may I sleep better knowing that I care.

:up: :up: :up:

 

[Izme]

ChrisA

This is yet another example of an archaic culture of brain dead idiots with absolutely no humanity and a taste for blood. I have been following your subject for awhile now and have came to the conclusion that the world is under seige by people barely out of the caves. Slaughtering everyone in their paths and doing unpseakable things to humanity. How can they possibly do this with a clear conscience? Us Americans cannot even fathom this. It would be like 100,000 Rapist's and muderers got out of prison here and went on a rampage through our cities.

It is very possible that this total lack of compassion for humanity with be the main cause of the genocide of humanity as a whole.

 

[Izme]

One thing that could change it all and bring this world back from the brink of destruction; LOVE

if all of these machete weilding madmen so full of hatred and so heavily conditioned by it would just drop the weapons and see the lessons of our forefathers ect. Then we could be well on the way to real change for a heavily scarred world.

after all Eating yesterday's cake will give you the s*its

 

[plschwartz]

Saw a quote from Clinton I think for the anniversary.
He apologized for doing nothing, essentially saying that it happened so fast it caught him flat-footed

 

[Izme]

Originally posted by plschwartz:
Saw a quote from Clinton I think for the anniversary.
He apologized for doing nothing, essentially saying that it happened so fast it caught him flat-footed

well good for him
although it is a day late and a dollar short
this will not lessen the pain of this Genocide

we should have stopped this

It took 100 days to genocide these people, I can hardly call this quickly, like the gassing of a million Khurds by Sadaam
and we had better come up with a better excuse than that for inaction. What kind of signal does that send to the extremists?

I saw what was going on and I saw everyone having their hands tied by instructions of no intervention ect.

Why? beurocracy or?

Too late for a sorry, and it does not clear my conscience!
but what we can do is never allow this to happen again

 

[Chris A]

Flat footed my rear.

Papers prove US knew of genocide in Rwanda
By Rory Carroll
April 1, 2004

US president Bill Clinton's administration knew Rwanda was being engulfed by genocide in April 1994 but buried the information to justify its inaction, classified documents made available for the first time reveal.

Senior officials privately used the word genocide within 16 days of the start of the killings, but chose not to do so publicly because the president had already decided not to intervene.

Intelligence reports obtained using the US Freedom of Information Act show the cabinet and almost certainly the president knew of a planned "final solution to eliminate all Tutsis" before the slaughter reached its peak.

It took Hutu death squads three months from April 6 to murder about 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus and at each stage accurate, detailed reports were reaching Washington policymakers.

The documents undermine claims by Mr Clinton and his officials that they did not fully appreciate the scale and speed of the killings.

"It's powerful proof that they knew," said Alison des Forges, a Human Rights Watch researcher and authority on the genocide.

The National Security Archive, an independent non-governmental research institute based in Washington, went to court to obtain the material.

It discovered that a secret CIA briefing circulated to Mr Clinton, his vice-president, Al Gore, and hundreds of officials included almost daily reports on Rwanda. One, dated April 23, 1994, said rebels would continue fighting to "stop the genocide, which . . . is spreading south".

Three days later the secretary of state, Warren Christopher, and other officials were told of "genocide and partition" and of declarations of a "final solution to eliminate all Tutsis".

However, the administration did not publicly use the word genocide until May 25 and even then diluted its impact by saying "acts of genocide".

Ms des Forges said: "They feared this word would generate public opinion which would demand some sort of action and they didn't want to act."

The administration did not want to repeat the fiasco of intervention in Somalia, where US troops became sucked into fighting. It also felt the US had no interests in Rwanda, a small central African country with no minerals or strategic value.

Many analysts and historians fault Washington and other Western countries not just for failing to support the token force of overwhelmed United Nations peacekeepers but also for failing to speak out more forcefully during the slaughter.

Mr Clinton has apologised for those failures but the declassified documents undermine his defence of ignorance.

On a visit to the Rwandan capital, Kigali, in 1998 Mr Clinton apologised for not acting quickly enough or immediately calling the crimes genocide.

The Guardian

This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/03/31/1080544556703.html

 

[LANMaster]

The Rwandan masacres were all over the news.

Clinton blinked, and didn't act.

the WTC was bombed in 1993
Cole was bombed

Clinton blinked and acted in a law enforcement capacity only.

9-11-01 Thank GOD we were lucky enough to have a president that didn't blink and took action to end the terrorist camps in Afghanistan.

Don't forget to vote this November for the candidate which will best protect the USA. George W. Bush.

:up: Thanks for your last post, Chris.

 

[LANMaster]

If Clinton had only attacked terrorism as much as he attacks George Bush we wouldn't be in this problem. -- Dennis Miller

 

[pyritechips]

Hey LAN: never miss an opportunity to twist and manipulate a thread into a Clinton "bash", huh?

How about this: if Bush wasn't so pathologically obessed about Iraq/Hussien he could have prevented 3,000 deaths on Sept. 11.

It's Bush that gets up on his self-righteous soapbox month after month, saying how hes gonna save the world from all the bad guys, and how he won't rest until he has scoured the Earth of them. Or is what he is really saying: protect some of the good guys from some of the bad guys? A confrontation is only worth stopping if the Good guys are American and the bad guys are "terrorists" (whatever that overused cliché means any more)? Rwanda was too much of a bother? Egypt and Ethiopia are not worth mediating; it's not "worth it" because Egypt and Ethiopia are politically (and resource)unimportant on the world scene?

I think all nations and all politicians of all political stripes should get involved in allworld tensions and hot spots before they erupt into more mass murders. I'm afraid that so much good talk about "saving the world from evil" is just more lip service. It's time that all politicians everywhere start serving humanity and stop serving their own re-election chances.

 

[barfly]

I may be wrong(nothing new in that) but the Hutu/Tutsi problems lie at Britain's door. Over 100 years ago we drew lines across Africa and expected to make them stick,despite the fact that we seperated villages,peoples,areas of influence etc. No, we just drew lines on a map in London, and expected all to conform

 

[LANMaster]

Kashmir is another example.

But I think the British have learned their lesson with regard to borderline graffiti.

 

[LANMaster]

Originally posted by pyritechips:
Hey LAN: never miss an opportunity to twist and manipulate a thread into a Clinton "bash", huh?

I still have to find a way to tie Kerry to it, though.

How about this: if Bush wasn't so pathologically obessed about Iraq/Hussien he could have prevented 3,000 deaths on Sept. 11.

Wasn't it the Clinton Administration that made regime change in Iraq a matter of US policy? Guess he didn't REALLY mean it, eh?

It's Bush that gets up on his self-righteous soapbox month after month, saying how hes gonna save the world from all the bad guys, and how he won't rest until he has scoured the Earth of them. Or is what he is really saying: protect some of the good guys from some of the bad guys? A confrontation is only worth stopping if the Good guys are American and the bad guys are "terrorists" (whatever that overused cliché means any more)? Rwanda was too much of a bother? Egypt and Ethiopia are not worth mediating; it's not "worth it" because Egypt and Ethiopia are politically (and resource)unimportant on the world scene?

You and I can certainly agree that it IS worth it to help these people. The question is How? If you send them money, they buy weapons. If you send them food, the majority of the food falls intop the hands of warlords who hoard the food away from those who need it the most. If you send in troops, then their blown up and dragged through the streets.

Please tell me what you would do in these kinds of situations. Unfortunately these situations WILL pop up in the future.

I think all nations and all politicians of all political stripes should get involved in allworld tensions and hot spots before they erupt into more mass murders. I'm afraid that so much good talk about "saving the world from evil" is just more lip service. It's time that all politicians everywhere start serving humanity and stop serving their own re-election chances.

Well, it looks like you already answered the question.
I agree with you to an extent. But I think it is important that the right people are running the economic engines so that the money will be there to help.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but what is Canada providing economically to these people? I'm honestly curious. Is it anywhere near what the US is providing?

I think the US re-election of GWBush is very critical to these efforts with which we agree. Now that our economy is finally recovering, perhaps we will do even more.

AIDS spending increased from 12 Bil to 18 Bil in the new budget.
What's Canada spending on AIDS?

Once again, I am not trying to be snotty, I am sincerely uninformed about Canada's efforts in these areas.

Thanks, as always, for the thoughtful reply. :up:

 

[pyritechips]

I'll have to look the numbers up Mike; I really don't know offhand but I do know Canada has an active Third-world contribution policy. As far as "Is it anywhere near what the US is providing?" is concerned, the answer is "no", nor should it be. Please remember that Canada has only 10% the U.S. population and any contributions can only be porportionately smaller.

 

[pyritechips]

Here's one fact (I am searching through the Canadian government website). And please remember that you may be used to multi-billions as far as government budgetary figures are concerned it's only hundreds of millions in Canada:

The $500-million Canada Fund for Africa was launched at the G8 Summit in Kananaskis, Alberta, in June, 2002.

The Canada Fund for Africa complements CIDA's ongoing programs. It is a key element in the Agency's bilateral cooperation program in Africa, which will total more than $6 billion over the next 5 years.

Population equililant: $6 billion = $60 billion